QQ makes me want to cry [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Fredrik

05-27-2005, 05:23 PM

Could I have played this any differently? I don't think so, but I don't want this to be a bad beat post, so just tell me what I'm doing wrong... /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($13)
UTG ($23.4)
Hero ($27.15)
UTG+2 ($22.75)
MP1 ($25)
MP2 ($56.48)
MP3 ($24.75)
CO ($34.77)
Button ($24.65)
SB ($22.55)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
UTG calls $0.25, Hero raises to $0.75, 7 folds, BB calls $0.50, UTG calls $0.50.

Flop: ($2.35) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB bets $0.45, UTG folds, Hero raises to $3, BB calls $11.80 (All-In), Hero calls $9.25.

Turn: ($26.85) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($26.85) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $26.85

Results in white below: 
BB has 2c 3c (two pair, threes and twos).
Hero has Qd Qh (one pair, queens).
Outcome: BB wins $26.85. 

And two hands later while I'm still trying to figure out wtf happened:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($25.55)
Hero ($14.15)
UTG ($22.75)
UTG+1 ($25)
MP1 ($56.48)
MP2 ($24.75)
MP3 ($34.77)
CO ($24.65)
Button ($22.45)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
6 folds, Button calls $0.25, SB (poster) completes, Hero raises to $0.75, Button calls $0.75, SB folds.

Flop: ($2.25) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1, Button calls $1.

Turn: ($4.25) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $3, Button calls $3.

River: ($10.25) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $4, Button raises to $8, Hero calls $5.15 (All-In), Button calls $1.15.

Final Pot: $28.55

Results in white below: 
Hero has Qd Qc (one pair, queens).
Button has Ts 9c (two pair, tens and nines).
Outcome: Button wins $28.55.

amoeba

05-27-2005, 05:27 PM

raise more preflop. they'll call anyways but at least you make more the times they don't hit the flop that heavily.

If you have decided to go to the felt with QQ in hand 2, you need to bet more on the flop to build pot, and push the turn. That half pot bet on the flop gave you no info to villains hand.

tripdad

05-27-2005, 05:41 PM

hand 1 is fine, though you can raise more before the flop.

hand 2: i bet big on the scary flop, and if i get a call, even bigger on the turn. making little "please call, i have a monster" bets is terrible unless you have a monster. QQ is very vulnerable on this board. oh, and save the extra $1.15 by just calling the raise...you are beaten the vast majority of the time here. i just check/call anyway.

cheers!

Davideo

05-27-2005, 05:42 PM

Like amoeba said, you need to raise more preflop. Otherwise i think you played it ok.
When you don't raise more preflop with big pairs it's a perfect situation for people looking to hit their set/two pair and bust you.
Paying those .75 cents is not much considering it's likely he will get your whole stack if he hits his hand.

ghostface

05-27-2005, 05:45 PM

4bb + 1bb per limper always until you get a feel for the table. At 50NL I raise 2 all the time and .50 more per limper until I get a sense of how tight the table is.

poboy

05-27-2005, 05:47 PM

You have to play them like you mean it. Raise more preflop, bet more on the flop. In hand #2 you fired less than a 1/2 pot-sized bet on the flop, what is that going to accomplish? You either want them to fold or pay too much to continue, your bet does neither. In both hands I would make it 4-6xBB pf and fire a pot-sized bet on the flop. Also calling all-ins with overpairs is not a good idea. Though given the way you played , the villians could just be assuming weakness on your part and are trying to take the pot away from you. JMO

ChuckyB

05-27-2005, 08:47 PM

1st hand...the pre-flop raise should be bigger. I'd go $1.25 (or $2 if players are looser). The rest...what can you do when a guy nails his crappy suited connectors.

2nd hand...gotta bet the pot on the flop and turn. He'll go away with his 2nd pair, bad kicker.

pzhon

05-28-2005, 05:59 AM

In hand 1, you raised to 3 BB after one limper. People will call much larger raises, particularly at NL 25. Raise more for value.

On the flop, calling the push is marginal. What did the tiny bet followed by a reraise all-in mean to you? Sometimes it is a draw, or your opponent is a maniac, but it represents a lot of strength. I was surprised it was only bottom 2. Don't set up marginal calls for yourself. Raise a different amont so your decision is easier.

In hand 2, you should make a larger raise from the big blind. It is natural to make a much larger raise from the blinds because the limper gets a discount to call you.

You should bet more on the flop. Because of the implied odds, you are not protecting your hand enough against someone with even a pair (and 5 outs). When the board is more coordinated, it is more natural to bet larger amounts. On this JTx flop, which could give someone a flush draw or straight draw and is likely to have hit a limper, I'd bet the pot.

I like the turn.

I think your bet on the river was bad. It is pretty likely that your opponent has a busted draw, or has a low pair and will not call a 40% pot bet. I'd check to try to induce a bluff. It is also quite possible that your opponent just made a straight, or has two pair, and that it will be less expensive to call a value bet than to bet and call a raise.

The reraise all-in on the river was small but pointless. You can call if you think your opponent is bluffing often enough (about 15% of the time), but to reraise you need to be ahead not just 50% of the time, but 50% of the time you get called. You have only one pair. Which worse hands would raise on the river and then call? I think you are only getting raised by a bluff or a better hand.

Fredrik

05-28-2005, 06:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I think your bet on the river was bad. It is pretty likely that your opponent has a busted draw, or has a low pair and will not call a 40% pot bet. I'd check to try to induce a bluff. It is also quite possible that your opponent just made a straight, or has two pair, and that it will be less expensive to call a value bet than to bet and call a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hoped he had TP, good kicker. Of course, what I hope and what he has is two different things.

[ QUOTE ]

The reraise all-in on the river was small but pointless.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know. Most probable a late-night tilt. $1 bet into a pot larger than $25... Did I really think he would fold? Did I even bother to think?

I know all these lessons, but yet I fail to apply them in the heat of battle:
Raise more pre-flop. Don't give the odds for whatever draw they have. Think about what's happening. Do not tilt.

Easy to say, hard to put in practice; I guess.

obsktbll777

05-28-2005, 09:46 AM

u have to push pot pre flop.especially the second time when u were chip bitch. becuase when u dont people will catch 2 pair with 2,3

Chicago Kid

05-28-2005, 10:01 AM

Simple deal here. QQ doesn't like to play against lots of people. You're going to have to raise more with them, so you either take the pot right there or get heads-up.

In both cases, your small raise (only 2x the BB) didn't push out the trash. At a minimum, you've got to make people pay to play rags.

It's nice to get paid off, but the schooling effect will take its toll over time, if you let garbage play cheaply.