Taj $500 Limit Tourney Hand

[lysis]

Hi All,

This is a hand that came up between me, and a very well known world class player (WCP). There is a hand that goes along with it, a "set-up" hand played heads-up between us earlier:

Set-up Hand:

Limit's T100-T200. I have T1,400, WCP has about T3,000.

WCP raises from UTG. All fold to me, and I re-raise on the button with A /forums/images/icons/heart.gif J /forums/images/icons/heart.gif . All fold back to WCP who calls.

Flop:

8 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 3 /forums/images/icons/club.gif

WCP bet's out, and I raise. He calls.

Turn:

[8 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 3 /forums/images/icons/club.gif ] 9 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif

He checks, I bet, he thinks for bit. Then he asks me how much I have left. Without saying a word, I quietly pick up my remaining chips, and place them in front of me, where the whole table can see them. He looks them over, then mucks.


This was the first time I had played someone so famous in a heads up hand (only my 2nd major tourney), and when I made it three bet's pre-flop I had simply just decided to take it to him, and see what happened, knowing that good players can lay down a hand when they have to. Needless to say, I was thrilled with the result, if not the logic of the whole thing. But I noticed that the WCP put his head down and appeared to go into the "tank" for a minute or two once the hand was over.

About 30 minutes later, having watched me play some (I had barely arrived at the table when that hand occured), he walks up to me during a break and says "I should have called you". I try to play it off, "What hand are you talking about?". He says "I had a small pair", and stands there. I believe I told him "you're good", thinking, damn, he has me figured out already...


Discussion hand:

limits are T200-T400. I have T2500, he has about T5500.

He raises from EP. I re-raise in LP with T /forums/images/icons/club.gif T /forums/images/icons/spade.gif . All fold back to him, and he caps it. He is acting very aggressively. During the break, I was secretly hoping this scenario would pop up, where I actually had a hand heads up against him. I had planned to play it the same as I had before when he knew I was bluffing, even remembering the way I moved chips in, and how I announced my raise. Well, here it was :-).

Flop comes:

9 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 2 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif

He bet's out, I raise. He instantly re-raises. Uh-oh. I call, feeling rather shell shocked. This isn't going well. I've now invested T1400, in a hand against one of the best tourney players in the world. Not good.

Turn:

[9 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 2 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif ] Q /forums/images/icons/club.gif

He bet's out. At this point I am an odd mix of pot comitted, worried and yet somehow my read is that I'm still ok, cause he's still acting so aggresively; so I call. My exact thoughts were something along the lines of "I'm gonna feel awful stupid loosing to AA, KK, QQ, JJ here...)" After I call, I look down and notice I only have T700 left.

River:

[9 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 4 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 2 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif Q /forums/images/icons/club.gif ] 5 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif

He checks. I check. He shows AK and I take it down.


Now I'll be honest, I wasn't thinking too clearly during the hand. Nowhere near as clearly as I'd like anyways, other than feeling that I still had the best hand. But after it was over, and I was on the bus ride home with some extra pocket cash, I had the following thoughts:

1) Daniel Negreanu's column on his Black 7's hand against TJ Cloutier when it was 3 handed at the 4 Queen's Poker classic ( CardPlayer Magazine Article (http://www.cardplayer.com/?sec=afeature&art_id=12911) ). He felt similarly as I did on the turn (there was a separate discussion on rgp or 2+2 about this hand where he talked more about it as well), suspect of the turn bet, but he had what it took to act on his read, and he raised. He had enough wits about him, in a much more pressure packed situation, to do the right thing, to go with his read. He got that extra bet in, and took advantage of all the benefit's that come along with a raise on the turn.

2) My check on the river. I mean, the only hand I can see this guy checking that has me beat is JJ or maybe AQ. Once he checked, I think I absolutely should have bet, considering my remaining stack (T700). But feeling overwhelmed I let it slide, thinking "at least I'll get to see his hand this way".

Comments would be appreciated. It's hard for me to think through these hands rationally. And yes, in case you didn't notice, I'm a pretty aggressive player in limit tourneys.

lysis

[Greg (FossilMan)]

As for your setup hand, you're playing with dynamite to 3-bet anybody who raises UTG when you've got only AJ. Better watch out, or really know who you're playing against.

As for the TT, I don't see any mistakes. Once he 3-bets the flop, it's check-and-call time for the most part. Your hand is too good to lay down, even if an A comes, given the total situation. As for the river, the problem with betting is if he raises, you're all-in or folding, both of which suck. However, you are right that it will be very rare for a very good player to check there with any hand that beats TT except for the JJ you mention. I think he bets AQ or better quite readily on the river, since you did not raise the turn.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Toro]

It seems pretty obvious that the WCP doesn't have you beat when he checks the river but I don't necessarily think your check was a mistake. Your stack size and the fact that the WCP may not have called anyway are mitigating factors. The only thing that I had a problem with was when you answered the WCP honestly about the setup hand. I would have either told him that he made a good lay down or I would have said nothing!

[ohkanada]

I pretty well agree with what has been said so far.

Pushing AJs may be dangerous.

On the second hand I agree with calling the turn. If you more less told him that his small pair was good the 1st time it seems more likely that he will test you when given a chance.

Ken Poklitar

[lysis]

"As for your setup hand, you're playing with dynamite to 3-bet anybody who raises UTG when you've got only AJ. Better watch out, or really know who you're playing against."

Yeah, it definitely wasn't a play based on the strength of my hand. A semi-bluff if you will. I played it like I had aces, head down, no interest in anything but the strength of my hand, all the while making it evident that even though I didn't have to (i.e. my stack was big enough for me to hang around and wait longer if I had to), this was the hand I was going home with if it came to that.

"As for the TT, I don't see any mistakes."

Ok, thanks. The only thing that really bothered me was that Negreanu column. I know a better played would have raised the turn. I just didn't have the composure to trust that I was getting a read off a very good player. Due to his comment earlier I felt he had me figured out, and was sucking me in for all my chips.

But it's a lesson learned.

[lysis]

"The only thing that I had a problem with was when you answered the WCP honestly about the setup hand. I would have either told him that he made a good lay down or I would have said nothing!"

Yeah, it was pure honesty seeping out, I couldn't help it. I was half flattered that he had clearly put some thought into that hand, and half amazed that he had figured it out so decisively.

lysis

[J.R.]