My [KK], his [AA] - am I giving away money?

[OldTexan]

Am I just giving away my money here or do I tell myself it's a good call and just chalk it up to bad luck?

I'm Hero:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Kc Kh (full house, sixes full of kings).
MP2 has Ac As (full house, sixes full of aces).
Outcome: MP2 wins 11.50 BB. </font>

What would you do?

[BreakfastBurrito]

check fold the flop. in all serious, your line is ok, you probably could have lost a little more. impossible to fold.

[bpb]

Are there any hands that MP2 would play this way besides AA?

Yes. QQ almost for sure. Possibly JJ or AsQ as well.

You could make a case for laying down JJ here ... but not KK.

[sammy_g]

Hi, Texan. You'll get more objective responses if you don't include villan's hand in your post.

I would have lost more here probably. I wouldn't worry about these hands so much. If you have leaks in your play, they aren't from calling down too much heads up with an overpair.

[twankerr]

I raise the river.

[autobet]

and AK with the A of spades

Your play is fine.

[OldTexan]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, Texan. You'll get more objective responses if you don't include villan's hand in your post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I'll remember that for next time...

[Guthrie]

I'd play it the same way. Some days you eat the bear and some days the bear eats you.

[GoodOL]

Does anyone think betting flop and just calling a raise, then betting a turn non spade, is an OK line (call down from there)? Both lines lose 4BB to AA.

[diebitter]

No you played fine. The fact he capped on the reraise preflop would have put him on QQ or AK for me (or maybe JJ or KQs), and his play on the flop woulda flagged a flush, flush draw or semibluff to me at that point. I'd have been happy with the 2 sixes that fell afterwards, and would be raising forever at the river, given that all that could beat me was AA (!), so you saved yourself some money compared to my play in the same spot...

[Rah]

[ QUOTE ]
No you played fine. The fact he capped on the reraise preflop would have put him on QQ or AK for me (or maybe JJ or KQs), and his play on the flop woulda flagged a flush, flush draw or semibluff to me at that point. I'd have been happy with the 2 sixes that fell afterwards, and would be raising forever at the river, given that all that could beat me was AA (!), so you saved yourself some money compared to my play in the same spot...

[/ QUOTE ]

1. So you put him on AK/KQs when you hold two kings? Do you think a cap would come from QQ/JJ, but for some reason not AA?

2. The only probable flush is AQs. This hand would not often cap preflop.

3. There are more hands that beat you, though not likely: TT, any 6.

4. What semibluff are you talking about that is not a flush draw? Having capped preflop, the flop play more looks like a big pair, i.e JJ/QQ/AA with one spade.

5. The 6 on the river doesn't change anything, really. It's very unlikely that opponent has a flush and TT is still ahead. On the river, it's still a question of whether opponent has aces or lower PP. The 6 could might as well have been any non-spade lower than a jack.

[stone_7]

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2. The only probable flush is AQs. This hand would not often cap preflop.

5. The 6 on the river doesn't change anything, really. It's very unlikely that opponent has a flush and TT is still ahead. On the river, it's still a question of whether opponent has aces or lower PP. The 6 could might as well have been any non-spade lower than a jack.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think I disagree on some of your points.

2. I play mostly 2-4 and lower and I cap preflop with AQs every chance I get. Too many maniacs out there not to. I have seen too many reraises from weak suited aces to not do it.

5. I think the 6 changes the entire hand. I would have slowed down on the river fearing the flopped flush but I would definitely been raising and reraising because of the 6 on the river. I may be giving away money in the case but over time I will make more that way than by being timid here. Even if we are playing Omaha I might make the same play here.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Rah]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


2. The only probable flush is AQs. This hand would not often cap preflop.

5. The 6 on the river doesn't change anything, really. It's very unlikely that opponent has a flush and TT is still ahead. On the river, it's still a question of whether opponent has aces or lower PP. The 6 could might as well have been any non-spade lower than a jack.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think I disagree on some of your points.

2. I play mostly 2-4 and lower and I cap preflop with AQs every chance I get. Too many maniacs out there not to. I have seen too many reraises from weak suited aces to not do it.

5. I think the 6 changes the entire hand. I would have slowed down on the river fearing the flopped flush but I would definitely been raising and reraising because of the 6 on the river. I may be giving away money in the case but over time I will make more that way than by being timid here. Even if we are playing Omaha I might make the same play here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are missing some of the finer points here. First of all, capping with AQs headsup requires a somewhat loose/aggressive player since you are only dominating KQ/AJ. If the table is loose and the pot is multiway, AQs would be more of an option because of the added multiway value. In this hand, unless there is a read, AA or QQ are the most probable hands given that KK is out. The flop action indicates an overpair with one spade. Headsup against a preflop capper, a flopped flush is very unlikely. All through the hand, the question is whether hero is up against AA or QQ, not whether opponent has a flush or not.

Secondly, if opponent really has a flush, the third six will make him check/call. If you are reraised on that river, you know for sure that you are up against a pocket pair.

In summary, you should put opponent on AA or QQ preflop. Postflop, there is a 50/50 chance that you are beat already. However, you don't have the spade and should therefore be check/calling. On the river, you are still 50/50. Be more inclined to raise if you have a read on the opponent as being capable of capping preflop with QQ or even lower. Always bet/raising this river is not +EV. Check/call against tight opponents, reraise loose ones.