Laying down AKo after hitting flop

[EchoOfThunder]

Hi, i'm a new poster to the forum. Been lurking a little while, but i've improved from the posts here, so I figured it was time to make a name and get even more help. I recognize a few of you from the starcraft forum teamliquid, namely izenra. Anyways, onto poker.

$50 NL at partypoker, blinds are .25/.5.

Just sat down at the table, so I didnt have a read on anyone.

Hero: LP (48$)
Villain: UTG (52$)

Hero is dealt A /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

UTG calls, folds to hero, hero raises to 2.
Folds to villain, villain calls.

Flop: K /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Villain checks. Hero bets 3. Villain check raises to 7. Hero calls.

Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Villain bets 5, Hero calls.

River: 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Villain bets 10, Hero ???

Results in white


<font color="white"> Hero calls. Villain turns up A6, Hero wins pot. Although I won the pot, I think folding was the correct play here, mainly because of no read on villain. </font>


On the flop I thought he might have a set. If he had 33 or 44, calling from an early position is plausible. This was mitigated by the river 4, I figured it was less likely he had a set at this point, but I was still unsure. I also thought he might be a weaker player calling with something like KQ and pushing it too hard. Finally, i was afraid of a limper with aces.

I've come across this exact situation 8 times in the past week. I folded it 3 times, called 5 times, won 3, lost once to aces and once to bottom two pair. It's gotten to the point where I'm afraid of calling a check raise with TPTK, but I dont want to be weak and lay it down, especially with AK. How do you guys feel about situations like this where you have no read on an opponent?

[Leaky Game]

I hear you with the TPTK kicker thing. Seems I always lose with it in larger type pots also.

This is the great thing about Party, there's a lot of idiots. Yes, this makes for higher variance but you'll end up much better off in the long run. A few questions...

- What hands are you afraid of when he check raises on the flop? I'm not sure a draw would do this unless it was Kx /images/graemlins/club.gif. If he had a set, I think he'd likely smooth call here.
- Since you don't know what type of player villian is and you're likely going to call a decent size bet on a non club turn anyway, what about reraising his check raise? If he then goes over the top again then you can safely fold. Worst case is you probably got yourself a free card if he just calls.

Just some food for thought, I'm no expert so I can't really give out advice. Feel free to critique my input....that's how we all learn.

Oh, and welcome.

[salloch]

I hope you added villian to your buddy list! Although I don't think he'll be around long. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

This is one of those situations that I think about alot. This hand is really decided on the flop. You're call of his re-raise says that you don't believe he has you beat. If you don't believe he has you beat, then this has to go to showdown (unless a club pops up). I don't like having to call those bets either, but if you think his check raise means he doesn't have a set or AA then you probably need to get it all in on the turn (again if no club comes).

I think you made a tough call on the river. I think given your read, you could have played the turn stronger. Then the river takes care of itself.

-salloch

[MixedNuts]

Hard to put the villan on a set. In general I'd never call a raise with 33, 44 unless there were more players. 73, 74, 34 forget it. Kx:clubs: very possible and a re-raise on the flop could have defined that. KQ very possible. Since the K is not /images/graemlins/club.gif the odds on having K3 K4 or K7 are not good. I thnk you have the best hand here. Perhaps he also has slick, Call the bet.

However I have yet to learn how to win with AKo, it's my biggest leak. So I'm especially interested in others opinons.

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[EchoOfThunder]

@leaky: Reraising on the flop does seem like a very good option. I think with junk he would probably fold here, and if he had me beat he would probably raise. KQc would probably just call, so it would be a good feeler bet.

@salloch: yes, i agree. if i felt i was ahead i probably should have reraised the flop and been all in on the turn.

@mixed: considering the size of my stack and my raise, as the villain i would definitely call a 2:1 pot for set value alone.


thanks for the input guys

[amoeba]

regarding reraising the flop.

If you believe he is likely to push a club draw, then reraising might not be a good idea.

In general, I don't like being raised on the flop as I'm ahead but not way ahead of a club draw but I'm way behind a set.

I think in this case I call down as you did.

[Leaky Game]

Ameoba, you'd push with a club draw after being raised PF, 2/3 flop bet, then reraised your pot sized bet?

I'm not coming at you, just trying to learn. These TPTK and overpair hands are where I'm leaking the most.

[EchoOfThunder]

and remember i have the Ace of clubs so he is drawing to the non nut flush at best

[barongreenback]

My first thought was that his turn bet is weak. Whilst players can bet small with big hands it makes less sense after showing strength on the flop. Either he's the sort of player that gets the money in with big hands or he's the sort that is scared you'll fold. Usually not both.

On the river you're getting 4:1. Don't fold there with that bet size. I don't raise anywhere postflop.

James

[amoeba]

I won't but somebody who calls you preflop with a6 and then check raises you on a flop with nothing very much might.

what I'm really trying to say is I don't like a reraise if you are going to fold to a push.

If you are trying to get him all in then flop reraise is fine.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Call here. He isn't betting very much and could easily have a weaker king. In a heads up pot, you have to fold less easily. It is not easy to flop a better hand than TPTK. Don't fold it easily heads up.

And amoeba and I (among many others, I'm sure) also post on TL. Welcome to the forums.

[EchoOfThunder]

same name there?

im bigballs on TL

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
same name there?

im bigballs on TL

[/ QUOTE ]
Ha. You're famous! I'm GogUMagog (Party name, too.) And he's "Amoeba" surprisingly enough.

[EchoOfThunder]

Haha

Im sharapova at party and stars (although recently i've allowed my much better friend to play on my stars name and he is making sharapova a little bit of a name on the site)

[TheWorstPlayer]

Can he play on my account, too?

[amoeba]

Knowing BigBalls' much better SC skills, I somehow feel weird giving poker advice.

kekeke, zerg rush?

[TheWorstPlayer]

Knowing his social life, I feel weird posting too many times in his dirty thread.

[amoeba]

don't wanna flop the nuts, eh?

[edge]

Call call call. My reasoning is that it's Party .5/1. I'm not folding TPTK that easily. He's really going to have to convince me that I'm behind.

Poker is pretty simple most of the time.

P.S. I suck at Starcraft