is this a good spot to check call the river?

[Rhone]

Just sat down a few hands before this, but villain seems rather aggressive. Is check calling the river standard in this situation?

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.

River: (6.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>


Final Pot: 7.50 BB

[wackjob]

I think I bet here, but I tend to be over aggressive. I'm not sure, but I think you are good here many times(missed flush &amp; OESD). I also run in to many loose players who will call to the river with 2nd pair then toss it to a river bet. Why I don't know, but I've seen it happen time and again.

[Rhone]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I bet here, but I tend to be over aggressive. I'm not sure, but I think you are good here many times(missed flush &amp; OESD). I also run in to many loose players who will call to the river with 2nd pair then toss it to a river bet. Why I don't know, but I've seen it happen time and again.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm definitely good here many times, the question is whether I gain in the long run by trying to induce a bluff bet, as well as by avoiding having to call a raise.

[mungpo]

I would bet here. Villian easily could have been drawing to a flush or straight.

[Bob Moss]

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet here. Villian easily could have been drawing to a flush or straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't this be a reason to check and call? Personally I'd bet, because that's not a very scary (bluffable) river card.

Bob

[ArturiusX]

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet here. Villian easily could have been drawing to a flush or straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case, it'd be a check-call.

[mungpo]

Could you explain why it would be a check-call?

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
Could you explain why it would be a check-call?

[/ QUOTE ]

The obvious draws (flush, OESD) missed on the river, so these hands are not calling if we bet. But they might bluff at the pot when checked to, thinking you have overcards and will fold. An aggressive player might also try to extract a value bet from AK-AQ with a small pair. Betting here has nothing to do with how often we have the better hand after all the cards are out.

[wheelz]

I think I bet here since he raised preflop. Better chance of him having an A high or PP he wants to call with than having a missed draw I'd think. But I'm just making this up, so...

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Could you explain why it would be a check-call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Isura covered it pretty well, but if you havent (and im guessing you havent) you really need to go buy and read "theory of poker" by david sklansky, this is covered extremely well in there, and should be required reading for anyone who wants to be a winning player.

[joseki]

Two things:

1. This is no reason to bet.

2. How did wacky know that they were tossing 2nd pair?

[tongni]

This is an easy, easy bet.

[stinkypete]

i check-call without thinking twice about it. he's not likely to have a deuce or a 6, he's not laying down a better hand, and the only other worse hands he MIGHT call with are smaller pocket pairs. try to induce the bluff.

[hockey1]

Check-call and it's not close.

[StellarWind]

Tough one. I think you should bet and fold to a raise. A6, K6, A2, 88, 77, 55-33 are all reasonable paired hands he might call with. It's also possible that he has an ace with an undercard kicker that he might call with. Folding an ace is painful in this situation even if it's sometimes correct.

I'm skeptical about a big ace because I would expect the 10-outer to have pushed back at some point, preflop or postflop. But it's possible and I'm pretty sure he will call.

Induce a bluff with a busted flush/straight draw? Unlikely for a PFR with the bottom of the playing zone blocked up on the board. Most of the moderately high suited-connector hands that people like to steal with have hit. The unmade flush draws at this point tend to be suited aces and kings. These hands don't want to bluff; they want to show down.

A similar situation prevails with the OESDs and gutshots. Most of the likely candidates are ace-high or decent kings. Hands with less showdown value like Q9 or Q8 might have raised the flop trying for a free card. Idiot-enders like 98 might not have opened in the first place.

It's also pretty lame to expect a bluff to work on this board. Just in case he thinks about stuff like that.

Overall I think you collect the most by betting. If I seriously feared a bluff checkraise I would checkcall--don't want to payoff every jack twice. If he were passive I would check and hope he would check through with a ten. That could happen because many players would rationalize that your overpair was afraid of the second jack. Because that's what they would do in your place.

[Rhone]

Hey, sorry for the late bump. Thanks for everyone's answers...very thought provoking.

StellerWind, I'm not sure what you mean by:

[ QUOTE ]
...the bottom of the playing zone blocked up on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Thanks,

Rhone

[StellarWind]

The playing zone is AKQJT9. The high cards that people like to play preflop

Most CO open-raises are pocket pairs, Ax, Kx, or two playing zone cards. Pocket pairs are made hands. Aces and kings tend to have too much showdown power to be worth bluffing instead of taking the free showdown.

That leaves hands with two playing zones cards smaller than A and K as likely bluffers.

The connected JT on the board will pair most of these hands as well as some nearby hands such as J8 and T8. Only the two-gap Q9 is still unpaired.

[Nate tha' Great]

Bet and call a raise.