When can I say I am a losing player? [Archive]

citanul

05-26-2005, 06:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
no i know and i constantly analyze my play and think about how i play its not a matter of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

i didn't say it was. or anything that could be rationally related to your followup post to mine, in fact.

you asked a question, i gave you my honest answer. then you brush off my answer.

whatever. if you don't want answers don't ask next time.

citanul

skipperbob

05-26-2005, 06:45 PM

Now there's the old Citanul that we all know & love; that's more like it you ol' PussyCat

jcm4ccc

05-26-2005, 06:53 PM

You are basically losing the rake, which means that you are an average player, which means that you are a losing player.

You are a losing player because you've lost money. That is the definition of a losing player. What you believe is that, if you continue to play as you have been playing without improvement, that the luck will eventually turn your way and you will be a winning player. But you have no evidence to support that.

The vast majority of players are losing players. You should give us some reasons why you are different from the vast majority of players, despite the evidence to the contrary.

BTW, you might be a winning player at the 50s, or the 30s, or the 20s, or the 10s, or the 5s. Don't let pride get in the way of finding your appropriate level.

citanul

05-26-2005, 07:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
250 games.. $150 buy in on ave.. = down about 13 buy ins.

You are probably still a winning player in my book.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, i find it hard to believe that i'm forced to update my list of "stupidest things i've ever heard" quite so often.

citanul

Voltron87

05-26-2005, 07:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
250 games.. $150 buy in on ave.. = down about 13 buy ins.

You are probably still a winning player in my book.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, i find it hard to believe that i'm forced to update my list of "stupidest things i've ever heard" quite so often.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

seriously

to op: sure, you might still might be a "winning" player, but you probably have some significant leaks that need fixing.

Blarg

05-26-2005, 07:42 PM

You guys are really hard on him. It's still only a dozen or something that he's down. I don't know why he even posted it.

I agree with Citanul though about examining your play being a thing that is mandatory and never-ending.

The Yugoslavian

05-26-2005, 07:48 PM

citanul,

I'll give you one more thing to add to your list:

For whatever reason when I am reading threads that you and treeofwisdom7 are posting a lot in, my peripheral vision seems to think you avatar and his new avatar are the same....thus, I end up reading posts (without looking at the author name) always assuming it's you and think stuff like 'wow, citanul is in a good mood' or 'is citanul going to have to flame himself now?' or 'I thought citanul played a bit higher buyin that that /images/graemlins/confused.gif'.

So, there ya go, /images/graemlins/crazy.gif.

Yugoslav

microbet

05-26-2005, 07:52 PM

I'm not sure which would be worse, but do you see citanul's avatar as a hot chick or do you see tree's avatar as a hooded monk? Maybe you just need glasses.

Pepsquad

05-26-2005, 07:53 PM

At what point did you decide you were a winner at the 22's? 55's? 109's? Take that criteria and the opposite would be a good starting point in determining you are a losing player.

pergesu

05-26-2005, 07:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure which would be worse, but do you see citanul's avatar as a hot chick or do you see tree's avatar as a hooded monk? Maybe you just need glasses.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been seeing the hooded monk up until yesterday! I finally realized that it's a chick...but it's still tough for me to see it right away.

For OP, and anyone who assures him he's likely a winning player: clearly he can make absolutely no conclusion that he's a winner. If you're losing, you can call yourself a loser until you turn a profit. Then play a couple thousand games /images/graemlins/smile.gif

The Yugoslavian

05-26-2005, 08:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
see tree's avatar as a hooded monk

[/ QUOTE ]

He needs a new, hotter, and more easily distinguishable chick, IMO.

Yugoslav

starvs

05-26-2005, 08:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
see tree's avatar as a hooded monk

[/ QUOTE ]

He needs a new, hotter, and more easily distinguishable chick, IMO.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

or she could just disrobe, I could distinguish that from citanul's avatar.

johnnybeef

05-26-2005, 08:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
see tree's avatar as a hooded monk

[/ QUOTE ]

He needs a new, hotter, and more easily distinguishable chick, IMO.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

like mine???? shes a peach

freemoney

05-27-2005, 01:13 AM

lol what was your answer? constantly? i was asking more from a i think i should be at about 10% for ROI and through 250 im down like 2k and i never really used to play them before so i was just wondering if this is significant, not an answer with little meaning.

freemoney

05-27-2005, 01:15 AM

here i guess this will be better my name on party is jljf3 for those of you who play if you have any comments on me or notice me from now on and want to PM things you feel about my game would be cool.

citanul

05-27-2005, 01:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
lol what was your answer? constantly? i was asking more from a i think i should be at about 10% for ROI and through 250 im down like 2k and i never really used to play them before so i was just wondering if this is significant, not an answer with little meaning.

[/ QUOTE ]

you clearly know the answer to whether or not the sample size is significant, you're just an obnoxious piece of crap. if you don't have any clue about what sample size is significant, i apologize and humbly request your party id so that i can apologize more at the tables with you, for someone too dumb to use the search function for one of the 8 million threads on sample sizes is probably not too great at poker either.

you give us no other information about your play or past results in other levels of sngs, just that you have lost money at the current levels you play. that, as another poster points out, means that you are a losing player at the sngs, by definition. if you want to go and look over all your results and find out how lucky or unlucky you were, that's up to you, as i'm pretty certain no one else is going to do that for you.

i doubt you have any concept at all of what ROI you should or should not be at given your past performance. to repeat myself, the most likely truth in this situation is that you are a losing player, not that you are a winning player who is running bad. it is also particularly unlikely that you are a significant winning player who is just running bad. one day you might be, but right now, you're just a losing player.

hope that clears things up.

citanul

edit: wow, he provided his screen name. that's neat.

freemoney

05-27-2005, 01:21 AM

we will take a randomly chosen SAT for 5k how about?

citanul

05-27-2005, 01:23 AM

a scholastic aptitude test? you have got to be kidding me.

if you give me say, an update on what the test currently entails (as i believe it's been changed recently), and the exam is paper and pencil, not computerized, you're on. i have trouble believing anyone as clearly retarded as you could get above a 1200.

if SAT means something to do with poker, we'll discuss it.

citanul

edit, i'm sorry, i really don't like using retarded as an insult, as i believe it really does demean retarded people. pretend i said "retarted" instead.

freemoney

05-27-2005, 01:28 AM

Stars 1k HU?

citanul

05-27-2005, 01:28 AM

nope. SAT. this is highschool bitch.

citanul

freemoney

05-27-2005, 01:30 AM

or we can bet, you give me 10-1 on getting a 1500 on an SAT from the last decade i put up 2k, i will travel to do this.

curtains

05-27-2005, 01:31 AM

I will give anyone 2-1 odds at the SAT FOR 30K right now, lets do it.

pergesu

05-27-2005, 01:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I will give anyone 2-1 odds at the SAT FOR 30K right now, lets do it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can I just send you records of my test scores? :P

1540. holla

freemoney

05-27-2005, 01:37 AM

so thats why i said 1k HU Stars, since you wanted something to do with poker.

syphlix

05-27-2005, 01:37 AM

any time an argument gets to the "lets play heads up for $$xxxx" you know it's way out of control!

freemoney

05-27-2005, 01:38 AM

how cant u beat the 200 sit n gos with a 1540?

citanul

05-27-2005, 01:39 AM

no, i said "if SAT means something to do with poker we'll discuss it."

citanul

pergesu

05-27-2005, 01:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
how cant u beat the 200 sit n gos with a 1540?

[/ QUOTE ]
Cause I don't play them? And I'm good at taking tests but suck at poker?

If you think SNGs can be beat with a formula, try standardized tests. I've got like a 984594238765% ROI on those bitches.

freemoney

05-27-2005, 01:40 AM

1k is a reasonable number and a very possible thing to happen.

citanul

05-27-2005, 01:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
how cant u beat the 200 sit n gos with a 1540?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, i believe the topic of hte thread is how can't *you* beat the 200s with some score over a 1500?

citanul

curtains

05-27-2005, 01:42 AM

My ROI at heads up SAT matches is like 56%

freemoney

05-27-2005, 01:42 AM

shh big bad citanul with all your snide remarks wont play me for 1k, shhhh.

pergesu

05-27-2005, 01:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
shh big bad citanul with all your snide remarks wont play me for 1k, shhhh.

[/ QUOTE ]
My dick is bigger than yours.

citanul

05-27-2005, 01:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
shh big bad citanul with all your snide remarks wont play me for 1k, shhhh.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, i won't play you for 1k at a heads up sng. isn't going to happen. are you really that upset because your insult towards pergesu was so easilly turned around on you?

moron.

citanul

freemoney

05-27-2005, 01:52 AM

i dont want this to be a pissing contest either

citanul

05-27-2005, 01:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i dont want this to be a pissing contest either

[/ QUOTE ]

then the thread should be over. your question has been answered multiple times already.

citanul

freemoney

05-27-2005, 01:59 AM

lol cmon realize how stupid you look, your insults obviously dont mean anything if i was a moron you would take an intelligence test or play heads up against me but you will do neither, how do you expect yourself to be taken seriously?

bluefeet

05-27-2005, 02:03 AM

stfu - please

freemoney

05-27-2005, 02:11 AM

its just funny he is willing to call me a moron and that i suck, but any attempt to quantify my stupidity or poker ability in comparison to him he skirts, so realize how empty a statement it is

citanul

05-27-2005, 02:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
lol cmon realize how stupid you look, your insults obviously dont mean anything if i was a moron you would take an intelligence test or play heads up against me but you will do neither, how do you expect yourself to be taken seriously?

[/ QUOTE ]

amongst other problems, i didn't say that i wouldn't play you for high stakes intelligence tests.

citanul, who once again begs this idiocy to end.

pergesu

05-27-2005, 02:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
its just funny he is willing to call me a moron and that i suck, but any attempt to quantify my stupidity or poker ability in comparison to him he skirts, so realize how empty a statement it is

[/ QUOTE ]
I just compare the content of his 1988 posts to the content of yours I've seen...works for me *shrug*

freemoney

05-27-2005, 02:16 AM

lol im not trying to have a semantics war with you, you are very boring and scared so this is stupid, call me moron all you like

Freudian

05-27-2005, 02:24 AM

This thread is retarded. Your behaviour is retarded. We have no way of knowing if you are a winning player or not. 250 is not a big enough sample size to find out true ROI.

So instead of waving your ePenis around you can a) continue to play 100-200s in the belief that your play is good enough to beat them b) drop down and see if your results improve c) do 1000 SATs from the last decade and dazzle us.

I don't really care which.

elonkra

05-27-2005, 02:27 AM

citanul is offering to do the high stakes sat thing, douchebag

let's make this happen

seems like a good subplot to my daily 2+2 perusal /images/graemlins/smile.gif

freemoney

05-27-2005, 02:28 AM

HU 1k?

Freudian

05-27-2005, 02:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
citanul is offering to do the high stakes sat thing, douchebag

let's make this happen

seems like a good subplot to my daily 2+2 perusal /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Pissing contests on the internet is like masturbating with a cheese grader, amusing at first but very painful in the long run.

freemoney

05-27-2005, 02:31 AM

you arent too perceptive, he is clearly not accepting he just would rather avoid it then say no.

citanul

05-27-2005, 02:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Pissing contests on the internet is like masturbating with a cheese grader, amusing at first but very painful in the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

jeebus, that is absolutely horrific. i've heard the "arguing on the internet is like the special olympics" one a lot, but wow, too much imagery. oh, the humanity.

citanul

elonkra

05-27-2005, 02:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
you arent too perceptive, he is clearly not accepting he just would rather avoid it then say no.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe you're right about his intentions, but i see nothing that indicates he isn't game

the more likely scenario is that he thinks you're full of crap... based on your original post, i put the odds at 50/50 that (1) you're, in fact, full of crap; or (2) you're a smart guy who has more money than he knows what to do with

i mean seriously, what kind of regular guy starts a thread on a poker messageboard about how bad of a player he is, and then proceeds to challenge a regular poster to a high stakes heads up match?

i'll say this: even if you're smart enough to ace the sat, you're still a complete dumbass in a helluva lot of ways

freemoney

05-27-2005, 02:54 AM

im 19 i dont suck i used to play 1 table at a time of anything from limit, nl, sng whatever over the last year made about 20k a friend showed me this site, i started to 4 table and was making about 95 an hour 4 tabling the 100 nl with rakeback over about 60k hands, got a little burnt so i decided to do this, i dont care how much the guy posts he likes to make these cocky remarks then bitch he doesnt want to start a pissing war but wont do anything but that and thats ironic.

elonkra

05-27-2005, 03:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
im 19 i dont suck i used to play 1 table at a time of anything from limit, nl, sng whatever over the last year made about 20k a friend showed me this site, i started to 4 table and was making about 95 an hour 4 tabling the 100 nl with rakeback over about 60k hands, got a little burnt so i decided to do this, i dont care how much the guy posts he likes to make these cocky remarks then bitch he doesnt want to start a pissing war but wont do anything but that and thats ironic.

[/ QUOTE ]

blah blah blah blah blah -- again, what kind of a dumbass who claims to have made 20K in a year starts a thread on an online messageboard about how bad of a player he is and then starts challenging folks to high stakes heads up matches

i think lorinda might say: when you know the answer to that question, you'll be better at figuring out why you're getting flamed in this thread and/or turned down by citanul

don't get me wrong, i'd love to see the high stakes sat match happen - the thought of two grown men traveling hundreds or thousands of miles to bet thousands of dollars that they can outperform a perfect stranger on a standardized test because, of all reasons, they got into a little $hit-talking match on an online poker messageboard just makes me lmao

freemoney

05-27-2005, 03:10 AM

i mean i am sorry you arent successful at poker but you kinda have to go out of your way to not make 20k in a year and i never once said i was bad.

elonkra

05-27-2005, 03:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i never once said i was bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Title of this thread: "What can I say I am a losing player?"

Follow-up question: "When will I know if I'm good?"

Even if you convince me that's not you saying you're a bad player, you're obviously bad enough to be considering the possibility.

[ QUOTE ]
i mean i am sorry you arent successful at poker but you kinda have to go out of your way to not make 20k in a year

[/ QUOTE ]

so basically, tonight you're determined to present us with as much incontrovertible evidence as possible that you're a douchebag

elonkra

05-27-2005, 03:17 AM

by the way, i do believe one thing you're saying

[ QUOTE ]
im 19

[/ QUOTE ]

good night, douchebag

lehighguy

05-27-2005, 03:19 AM

Where you a winning player at lower limits?

freemoney

05-27-2005, 03:23 AM

unlike so many of you guys on 2+2 i dont post here to be a part of 2+2, i do so i can learn more to become a better player which will help my understanding and allow me to make more money. whether or not you think i am a good player or not makes no difference to me.

elonkra

05-27-2005, 03:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
unlike so many of you guys on 2+2 i dont post here to be a part of 2+2, i do so i can learn more to become a better player which will help my understanding and allow me to make more money. whether or not you think i am a good player or not makes no difference to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point.

wait, no it wasn't.

just because folks call a spade a spade doesn't mean they don't post here to improve their game.

in any event, don't post about how bad you are and then argue that you're better than a regular poster by challenging him to high stakes heads up matches if it truly makes no difference whether we think you are a good player

you should stop this while you're way behind

freemoney

05-27-2005, 03:29 AM

haha i never said i was bad just that i was down and i am not challenging him to prove to you that i am good, i am doing it because it is +ev.

citanul

05-27-2005, 11:18 AM

Here, you said that you actually wanted people to help with your play, and tell you if they saw anything you did badly. Here's a hand that was observed:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t960)
UTG (t1875)
UTG+1 freemoney (t975)
MP1 (t2065)
MP2 (t1300)
CO (t970)
Button (t940)
SB (t915)

Preflop:
UTG calls t30, freemoney raises to t125, MP1 calls t125, 5 folds, UTG folds.

Flop: (t325) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
freemoney bets t150, MP1 raises to t300, freemoney calls t150.

Turn: (t925) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
freemoney checks, MP1 bets t1640 (All-In), freemoney calls t550 (All-In).

River: (t3115) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t3115

Results in white below: 
freemoney has Jd Ac (one pair, aces).
MP1 has Kh Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: freemoney wins t2025. MP1 wins t1090.

pooh74

05-27-2005, 11:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
haha i never said i was bad just that i was down and i am not challenging him to prove to you that i am good, i am doing it because it is +ev.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the 100s and 200s, what is your ratio of 1sts to 2nds? Have you ever seen citinul play? HU? What makes you think that playing any heads up match against an unknown is +EV?

I dont understand how you arrive at this conclusion. Yes, this is a pissing contest except, here, citinul is not giving you the satisfaction. (very effective means of winding up a 19 year old)

"I made my bones when you were bangin cheerleaders"

ilya

05-27-2005, 11:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
or we can bet, you give me 10-1 on getting a 1500 on an SAT from the last decade i put up 2k, i will travel to do this.

[/ QUOTE ]

all this would establish is that you're not clinically braindead.

freemoney

05-27-2005, 11:39 AM

thank you i want this, what dont you like preflop the call or OR?

freemoney

05-27-2005, 11:40 AM

lol yes everyone on here would get a 1500 on their SATs i forgot the brilliance of 2+2.

ilya

05-27-2005, 11:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I will give anyone 2-1 odds at the SAT FOR 30K right now, lets do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If someone wants to back me in return for 90% of the profit, I will take this bet. I scored 1530 in high school and feel confident I can score 1600 twice in a row now.

citanul

05-27-2005, 11:43 AM

i didn't notice you calling preflop, did you? the raise is, i believe, terrible in that spot.

citanul

editted to add: this is about the dumbest way of coming up with things you did wrong i can think of.

freemoney

05-27-2005, 11:48 AM

sorry i misread the action but do remember the hand, UTG was a weak player who was limping in nearly every hand i wanted to isolate UTG with what will be best hand 95% of time and take it down with a continuation bet or possibly double through, this play was pretty situational.

citanul

05-27-2005, 11:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I will give anyone 2-1 odds at the SAT FOR 30K right now, lets do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If someone wants to back me in return for 90% of the profit, I will take this bet. I scored 1530 in high school and feel confident I can score 1600 twice in a row now.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh, the prop bets abound around here.

i wonder what el diablo would say about this.

citanul

05-27-2005, 11:52 AM

ok, i still don't think i like that sort of isolation raise out of position but hey, whatever. post flop, even a weak player is going to have you beat very often in that spot, but if you knew the guy from other games, and could specifically put him on something like kk... that's ok.

also from an observed game last night:

you were repeatedly chatting "i'm all in, i'm all in, i'm all in, i fold" when it was not your turn to act, or when it was your turn to act, whichever. this has nothing to do with your play, but it's a dick move. it also is against the rules to talk about your actions before you make them.

citanul

freemoney

05-27-2005, 11:54 AM

theres a reason i do this and it is rarely and the fact that i have given my sn out i am not going to explain why. also on the KK hand it was not UTG who had KK it was a player who smooth-called behind me.

ilya

05-27-2005, 11:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I will give anyone 2-1 odds at the SAT FOR 30K right now, lets do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If someone wants to back me in return for 90% of the profit, I will take this bet. I scored 1530 in high school and feel confident I can score 1600 twice in a row now.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh, the prop bets abound around here.

i wonder what el diablo would say about this.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sanity quotient is a litte low right now. It's noon and I didn't sleep last night. And I'm not as young as I once was.

citanul

05-27-2005, 11:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
theres a reason i do this and it is rarely and the fact that i have given my sn out i am not going to explain why. also on the KK hand it was not UTG who had KK it was a player who smooth-called behind me.

[/ QUOTE ]

there's a reason why you make chat which is technically cheating? but you're not going to tell people what it is? interesting.

as for the hand, sorry about that mixup, but shouldn't you be pretty scared of the player who ISN'T your limping weak player giving you that much action?

citanul

citanul

05-27-2005, 11:59 AM

so you're saying that we should let you take a nap before staking you to a 30K HU SAT match?

citanul

freemoney

05-27-2005, 12:00 PM

i mean maybe but i figure he pushes AK a good amount here pre and wouldnt call with A3 or A2. The only hand that beats me that makes sense is AQ and getting 2-1 and already having 1/3 of my stack in the pot i am ok stacking a player here, i check to him on the turn to let him fire with a worse hand since i have decided to play this for my stack.