Bellagio shows it true colors

[Broyle Dunson]

By treating its regular day 15/30 and 30/60 players like crap during this tournament.If you stood around the room with your thumb up your yuno this week you know what I mean.Nice timing after the recent rake increase!Once again a successful cardroom is treating its bread and butter like unpaid props and Persona Non Grata while the "tourny trailers" get treated like royalty ,being shoved buffet tickets every day and smoozzed over.Ever try to get two buffet tickets in the same week?Ive seen one person actually laugh in a customers face for sush a reguest.Pathetic!And to add injury to insult most of these "rounders" (lol) cant play a lick,are busted and are in search of nothing more than a stake or loan,a room rate ,and that all too familier bad beat story they ineviatbly get (and love)to tell after being eliminated.They dont play live or contibute any real drop.And they certainly dont play at the Bellagio in live games.These faces blow in and out of town like the wind.Wake up Bellagio.Now that thats been said let me say ,the TOP tournament players,a core of world class players are also world class live players that destroy live games.I am fully aware of that,but the limits they play live are so big the games dont go all the time, and they dont last long when they do.Bellagio management please take note ,your room has gone downhill over the last year afetr being very good and very busy.Dont forget who got ya there.OOPs too late ,you already have.

[budman]

I play primarily at the Bellagio for at least 8 hours every day I am in Vegas. One time I was there I asked for a dinner comp after having played there for at least 40 hours in four days. The floorman made me feel like a panhandler and I settled for a line pass.

I don't even ask anymore. I still play there but don't tip the floor people when they get me my chips when I sit down. I think they should either get a better handle on who is playing at what levels for how long and do something to make us feel appreciated, or do nothing (I would have felt a lot better on the previously mentioned visit if I was simply told 'we don't provide comp meals).

[Dynasty]

The comp system and both the Bellagio and Mirage is astoundingly bad, especially when you compare it to what the small poker rooms on the Strip offer. At the Monte Carlo, you receive a $6 comp for just 4 hours of play. You get the comp regardless of what limit you play, including 1-5 stud. The comp is available every day without exception so you could receive a total of $42 in comps in a week. At either the Bellagio or Mirage, it's a major hassle to get just one comp per week worth $10 or a free buffet.

More importantly, the small poker rooms give these without a hassle. Just yesterday, I forgot to put my name on the comp list at the Monte Carlo. After an hour, I went up to the desk to ask to be put on the list and I got comped immediately because I had helped keep a game going which was getting short-handed. I had only been playing 1 hour.

[scalf]

/forums/images/icons/grin.gif gotcha dyn...another monte carlo plug...lol..gl /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[budman]

What limits do they spread at the Monte Carlo?

[D.J.]

[astroglide]

dynasty plays 4/8?

[KOJAK]

Are those the only games they have? How is the 4-8 HE game? Should I check it out while i'm in Vegas? thanks

[Dynasty]

I've been "vacationing" here in Vegas during the holidays. But, occassionally, I've gone up to the Strip to play some low limit games to keep me sharp. I've played the 4-8 game as well as a 6-12 and a 4-8 H.O.P.E (hold'em, omaha8, pineapple, stud8). Hell, I even played some 1-5 stud for an hour or so while waiting for Star Trek: Nemesis to begin.

[Hobart]

I play 8-12 hours a day when in Las Vegas at the Mirage or Bellagio anywhere from 15-30 to 40-80. I don't even ask for a comp because you are treated like smallpox or worse. The food situation is not as bad as the general rudeness of the floor staff.

[Mason Malmuth]

I'm going to defend The Bellagio Poker Room. I don't find the staff rude. In fact, I feel that most of them are very polite and well mannered.

I do agree that during the tournament things do and did at times get stressed. That's because the room was so busy and the floor people were in great demand to do many things.

I also agree that the comp system could be better. Part of your problem might be that when you have asked for a comp they are all given away. Each shift only gets a limited number of them. What I suggest when you come to town is to ask the shift manager when is the best time to ask for a comp.

I usually play on swing shift where Suzie Lederer runs the show. She usually shows up around 6:30 pm and the comps are given away at 8:00 pm. So the time to get on the comp list is between 6:30 pm and 7:00 pm. If you ask for a comp at let's say 9:30 pm, good luck. But if you ask during the time that I recommend, there's a good chance you will get one.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Eric P]

You guys are lucky you even get to complain about this. Next time you complain about not getting comps (which you obviously should be doing) just be glad they even let you in... stupid laws.

[Dynasty]

Part of your problem might be that when you have asked for a comp they are all given away. Each shift only gets a limited number of them.

That's not the problem with the Bellagio and Mirage's comp system. The problem is that you can play poker for 12 hours and they won't give you a damn thing. The two biggest Vegas poker rooms are cheap. All the small poker rooms on the Strip give out far more in comps per person tha Bellagio and Mirage. They each might give out more than the Bellagio and Mirage COMBINED.

The comps should never be "all given away". If you play, you should get comped. It's that simple.

[Jeffage]

At the Taj in AC, which is a bigger room than Bellagio, the comp system is much better. You clock in with your players card when you sit down, and you clock out when you leave. Mid Limit Players get 2 bucks and hour, and to get a comp you simply go to the comp woman and get one. So 6 or 7 hrs of 10-20 or higher, and you have your buffet, no questions ask. These comp dollars accumulate endlessly and most regulars have 100s of dollars in comps. Even when I play 5-10 for like 8 hrs, I can get something pretty good at the snack bar or 24 hr diner....Plus for mid limit action, the Taj is the only game in town so they can be cheap as hell if they want to...Bellagio could definitely learn some lessons from this. Maybe Dyno is right, and they just take players for granted.

Jeff

[brad]

perhaps not a book, but a booklet, the art of acquiring comps - for advanced players.

[Broyle Dunson]

The actual gist of my post wasnt specificly the comp system although the thread took that turn.My complaint was the overall treatment during the tournament when the service for regulars was noticably bad.

[mikelow]

Then it would be a giveaway. I have gotten one buffet comp from the Bellagio ($20 value). I think everyone is offbase here.
I think if you have too many comps, you pay for it elsewhere with higher rakes and collections.

[mikelow]

Well, in LV the Mirage and Bellagio are the only game in town. The Horseshoe is a dump so it doesn't count.

Here in southern California, you can get free food at the table.

[RollaJ]

In AC at the Taj and the Trop you get basicly the same deal $x per hour, no questions no being treated like crap. And at the Tropicana you can have them bring you food to the table or use the money at any of their restaraunts, as well as use the comp anywhere in the hotel (room, gift shop, shops) except Hooters TM. I love that place! /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

[budman]

Same deal at Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun in Connecticut. Foxwoods has a bonus going for the rest of this month where players get 2 or 3 dollars per hour of play at 20-40. This is a promotion supporting their recent change from a time charge to a rake.

[Mason Malmuth]

I agree the comp system at both the Bellagio and The Mirage is lacking, but don't tell me you're better off at The Taj. You forget that you're paying a higher rake. I would prefer that all poker rooms quit giving comps and lower their rake.

MM

[Mason Malmuth]

Actually, I am an expert in this area. You may want to read the book Comp City by Max Rubin. I wished we could have published it.

The fact of the matter is that while comps out of poker rooms are not that terrific, great comps are available elsewhere in the casino, and you can get these comps for and even get a little positive expectation to boot. The problem is that the swings can be pretty big.

MM

[Jeffage]

10-20 at Taj is $5 per half hr, 15-30 is $6 per half hr, 20-40 is $7 per half hr. What are the comprable rates at Bellagio/Mirage? Didn't they just raise 10-20 rake to 10% with $4 max? If that's the case, I don't see how you're getting a better deal. Just curious because I don't know the answers to these questions.

Jeff

[Dynasty]

I think if you have too many comps, you pay for it elsewhere with higher rakes and collections.

Every small poker room on the Strip give out more in comps per person than the Bellagio or Mirage and they have the same $4 rake is most places. The Monte Carlo still has a $3 rake and will give out 4X the comps per week per person.

[joedot]

Mason, can you please write a book: "How to get comps at Bellagio without feeling like and being treated like a bum"? LOL

[Ginogino]

Broyle:
I went back to reread your original post, and I agree with your premise that all players should be treated with equal consideration and respect. In following the thread I, like most of the people who responded, got slightly sidetracked onto the issue of comps.

To those whose chief complaint with the Bellagio has to do with comps, it seems to me that when you play there, you know what you're getting and you know what the cost is. A casino is, after all, a business, and they have a pretty good idea, I suspect, what kind of crowd they want to attract and they design their promotional campaigns (among which is the comp policy) to suit their own purposes. I may not care for their decisions and/or I may think their promotional campaigns are not well designed to suit the casino's purposes. Sure, I'd like easier comps, but I know when I go there it's for the poker - games I want to play and plenty of them. I think both the dealers and management are professional as a general rule. I think the room is a comfortable place to play. Comps are nice, but as a priority they rank fairly low on the list.

One place where I specifically aggre with you, Broyle, is that it is just plain wrong to treat one group of players (tournament types) with substantially more consideration and respect than others (ring-game types). I suspect that this is intentional and based on the notion that the tournament types and their families will spend much more during the few days they are at the Bellagio than the locals who come in every day and who tend to spend less per day than the tournament folks. In the long run, the success of the Bellagio cardroom (and, thus of the casino's ability to get the tournament folks to come) is that the room is alive with poker in a large number of games and levels. This makes it a bad idea to antagonize the folks who are, in a sense, the main attraction of the cardroom.

Gino

[skp]

I play at the Great Canadian casino in Vancouver.

Without a doubt, the worst run cardroom anywhere.

Management there doesn't give a [censored] about its players.

Comps amount to a floorman buying you a cup of coffee if you were goofy enough to come play on New Year's eve or something.

They spread one game (hold 'em) at one limit (10/20). Guys were chomping at the bit to play a bigger game and therefore created their own "must straddle game" which still goes now and then if all the players agree.

No Omaha games. No bigger limits. No over buttons. No kill games. No tournaments.

This despite requested requests by the regulars for all of the above.

Okay...just had to bitch a little...now, back to the Bellagio complaints...

[Herb N.]

The comp system started outmore or less saying ,Come play at my joint play and i'll make sure you dont go hungry.as a matter of fact if you want drinks,cigarettes thier also free.This was when they practicly gave food away.These buffets realy dont cost the Belligo,or Mirage sh.. They proubly throw 1/2 the food they cook away anyway.The bean counters have taken the charm out of L.V.I believe anyone who plays 6,or more hrs.should be feed with no beg!

[Ed Miller]

The rake at the Mirage and Bellagio is $4 max, but not 10%... more like around 5% (though it's not fixed... for example, I may be not remembering correctly, but I think the Bellagio rakes at $20, $35, $55, $85... or something like that.. for the 4-8 game).

[Jim Brier]

I could care less about comps. All I care about is how good the games are. During the tournament, the games at the Bellagio are nothing short of fantastic. The real purpose of a tournament is to generate good sides games and the Bellagio does exactly that. Not only should tournaments be welcomed with open arms, I think everyone should plan on playing one notch higher because the games are so profitable.

[JTG51]

I'm really amazed by this thread. I can't believe everyone is complaining so much about not getting enough free stuff. Would any of us stop playing if the card rooms didn't give any comps? I doubt it. I'm happy for whatever they give. As Mason said though, I'd be happier if we could give up all the comps for a lower rake.

That said, Foxwoods has a pretty good system. It sounds like the system Jeffage described for the Taj. You sign in with your players club card and earn money for every hour you play. $1 for 10-20 and currently $3 for 20-40 (that's just a promo until the new year, and will probably drop back to $1 or $2). Most semi regular players have enough points to get something relatively inexpensive to eat everytime they play.

[M.B.E.]

skp:
Not sure whether I agree that it's the worst run cardroom anywhere. They do a lot of things wrong, but a few things right as well. For example, the rake is reasonable. The cardroom could be better (much better in fact) but despite that playing there is pleasant and profitable, the two most important things.

Also, beginning this Friday they are planning to spread one table of 10-20 with a kill. Other tables will be regular 10-20 holdem with no kill.

Speaking of which, does anyone have a good estimate of how much the hourly EV of a winning holdem player will increase in a kill game, all other things being equal?

[Josh W]

Could it be the games are so good BECAUSE everybody is playing one notch higher?

[mikelow]

Well said Jim! I also find comps usually put me at psychological disadvantage, and I play less than my best.

[skp]

Playing there is pleasant and profitable but that's because of the players - not the people running the show.

The Vancouver game is the friendliest game that I have seen. There are plenty of sourpusses in Vegas, LA, Seattle and Edmonton (the 4 other cities that I have played in). Vancouver has very few cantankerous players. Really, I can only think of 1 or 2.

[Boris]

You can say that again.