Harrington likes the PVS!!

[pergesu]

In case nobody's noticed, the PVS is my new favorite play. So I have to be careful to do it correctly, rather than look for every opportunity to do it.

I was reading HOH while eating breakfast just now, and came across the problem on p292. It basically goes, "Two limpers, you have AJ in SB." I thought to myself, "Man if the blinds were bigger, I'd definitely PVS this." Then he says, "In a B&M game, those limps might mean strength, but in an online tourney, assume they're donks. You're entitled to make a play, raise it up and try to take the pot there."

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[bluefeet]

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breakfast just now ..

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good morning /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Voltron87]

whats the pvs exactly? pwning limpers?

[oxymoron]

[ QUOTE ]
In case nobody's noticed, the PVS is my new favorite play. So I have to be careful to do it correctly, rather than look for every opportunity to do it.

I was reading HOH while eating breakfast just now, and came across the problem on p292. It basically goes, "Two limpers, you have AJ in SB." I thought to myself, "Man if the blinds were bigger, I'd definitely PVS this." Then he says, "In a B&M game, those limps might mean strength, but in an online tourney, assume they're donks. You're entitled to make a play, raise it up and try to take the pot there."

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting, he is advocating doing this when the blinds are just 10/20.

[ilya]

For the last time,

a PVS is a push into several limpers with TRASH CARDS. Not AJo!

[oxymoron]

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breakfast just now ..

[/ QUOTE ]

good morning /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm about to do the same. Are you eating lucky charms by chance? I think lucky charms is -$EV but Captain Crunch is +$EV. Not that I even eat cereal anymore.

[Degen]

ya basically (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2261572&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1)

Andre

[Voltron87]

oh ok, i knew that.

[oxymoron]

[ QUOTE ]
For the last time,

a PVS is a push into several limpers with TRASH CARDS. Not AJo!

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand what you are saying the meaning is but what does it stand for? Push Versus Sucking?

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
For the last time,

a PVS is a push into several limpers with TRASH CARDS. Not AJo!

[/ QUOTE ]

I know (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=2477591 &Forum=f22&Words=now%20this%20is%20a%20pvs&Searchp age=0&Limit=25&Main=2477591&Search=true&where=sub& Name=7931&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=w&older val=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post2477591) /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Same idea though. Put in a raise to try to pick up the pot. It's just with AJo you don't dread seeing a flop.

[Al P]

Phil Van Sexton, a poster on here.

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For the last time,

a PVS is a push into several limpers with TRASH CARDS. Not AJo!

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand what you are saying the meaning is but what does it stand for? Push Versus Sucking?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, it's named after Phil, cause of that post he made. Someone linked to it already.

Phoenix said he invented it, but likes the name PVS, so that's what I go with.

[Al P]

Phoenix plays the $20's or lower, there's no way he invented this.

[Rex Ruthless]

yeah, I am clueless too on this acronym and plenty of others here since I am newb to the 2+2 community; is there a list somewhere to reference (PVS is not in the abbreviations link on this site)

[oxymoron]

[ QUOTE ]
Phil Van Sexton, a poster on here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay I'm retarded. Didn't even think of that.

[Unarmed]

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Phoenix plays the $20's or lower, there's no way he invented this.

[/ QUOTE ]

He may play the $20s, but thats no indication of his skill level. Kid has mad game.

[pergesu]

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Phoenix plays the $20's or lower, there's no way he invented this.

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Excuse me for this essay, I "invented" this play and felt that I should share my thoughts on it. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=2475029 &Forum=,f22,&Words=pvs&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&Main= 2474710&Search=true&where=sub&Name=&daterange=1&ne werval=1&newertype=w&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev =#Post2475029)

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It's kinda like when hot chicks come over to my house. I don't care where they come from, I'm just glad they're there.

[Rex Ruthless]

ah - I found the link and I get it - PVS is the initials of a 2+2'er who made a push with trash and flopped a str8

the learning curve is steep, but I will catch up to you all soon

[Al P]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Phoenix plays the $20's or lower, there's no way he invented this.

[/ QUOTE ]

He may play the $20s, but thats no indication of his skill level. Kid has mad game.

[/ QUOTE ]

SnG's have been around over 3 years. Anyone playing in the $20's today didn't invent dick for plays.

[maddog2030]

I was watching last years WSOP last night, and Harrington did pull a real live PVS at the final table. Well, I can't remember if it was raised or the players limped, but Harrington pushed with the likes of 64o after 2 players entered the pot.

Although, it was mentioned by another poster on these forums that this play is fairly common at high buyin tournaments.

[gumpzilla]

I just thought it was worth pointing out (since people are taking this more seriously than I anticipated or believed it was written in) that Harrington is talking about raising, NOT pushing, in deeper stacked online tournaments with a pretty good but not amazing hand early. This is about as far from a PVS as you can get other than folding.

[The once and future king]

[ QUOTE ]
Phoenix said he invented it

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, becuase no one would have thought of this actualy quite obvious move independently. Thanks Phoenix.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
For the last time,

a PVS is a push into several limpers with TRASH CARDS. Not AJo!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I'm glad I'm not the only one who is going crazy b/c of these posted hands.

Damn, I was always hoping I could have a move named after me, but now I think I'd just end up hanging myself on that noose after reading thread after thread completely f*ckin it all up.

Yugoslav

[byronkincaid]

PVS? (http://www.thehendonmob.com/Tips/Building2.htm)

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

Phoenix said he invented it

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, even he knows that's not true. I know for a fact Irie has been 'in the know' about the move for a long, long time (and the concepts behind the move for...well, I was probably in junior high then). I'd imagine just about any expert STT player has been using it for a long time (Strassa, PM, ZJ, etc)...it was never necessary for them to think about it in terms of being a specific tactic.

The reason it's named after PVS (in my mind) is he's the first one who started talking about specific situations in relatively early levels where FE was higher than most people realized (and risk/reward could be favorable to the player). The specific tactic hadn't really been called out on this forum in such a direct and specific manner (altho I'd love it if The Shadow proved me wrong here).

Really all it is, is a nifty/fancy/tricky way to seize upon hard to see FE (the concept of which has been hashed out in 'unique' ways to STT theory from pretty much the beginning of this forum).

Yugoslav
PS While that Harrington example doesn't demonstrate it....I'd imagine his 2nd book will contain at least one fairly close example of it (as the final shorthanded tables of a big MTT tournament start to become more like STTs).

[citanul]

jesus people, no one who actively participates in this forum "invented" the pvs. someone is responsible for coining the name, that's all. looks like i'm going to have to make an addition to the faq though.

to the OP who is trying to work on his pvses:

the point that you're clearly picking up in a variety of directions, and it's a good point, is that there's a lot of ways to pick up chips via folding equity that aren't just pure blinds steals. amongst those methods are when no one else shows any strengh, putting in a raise (or a push) to take down the limped chips. in the sng arena, it is important to consider lorinda 3:16 or whatever (possibly that should go in the faq too) "do you need this pot?" and also remember that there are clearly things to consider about the stack depths of you and your opponents, number of opponents, position of limpers, etc.

in the future though, if you're going to post a dozen hands all with the same theme (say, practicing the pvs) you might want to consider putting it in one post, instead of 12. hands that aren't on the same theme, yeah, break em up.

anyway, just some stuff to consider up there.

citanul

editted to add: it's about the freaking gap, ok man? other examples of "pvsish plays" are the harrington 62 or 72 play at the final table last year. note that in that hand, the raises to him didn't represent any strength necessarilly either, so he took advantage of the gap, and pushed.

the AJ sb or bb hand, whichever, he's saying "look, no one else has said they want those chips, you should consider getting them at relatively low risk." i don't know how much i agree with that sort of play early, but given correct conditions, i do it as well.

[the shadow]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason it's named after PVS (in my mind) is he's the first one who started talking about specific situations in relatively early levels where FE was higher than most people realized (and risk/reward could be favorable to the player). The specific tactic hadn't really been called out on this forum in such a direct and specific manner (altho I'd love it if The shadow proved me wrong here).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yugo, I think you're right. Phil's Level 3 Ramblings (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1997018&page=&view=&s b=5&o=) thread laid out the idea. That thread coined the name. A classic example of the PVS is his How dare you call me (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2261572&page=&view=&s b=5&fpart=&vc=1&o=&PHPSESSID=) hand -- I've got 32o.

The Shadow

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
For the last time,

a PVS is a push into several limpers with TRASH CARDS. Not AJo!

[/ QUOTE ]

AJo is pretty close to trash.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Phoenix said he invented it

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, becuase no one would have thought of this actualy quite obvious move independently. Thanks Phoenix.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well considering Sklansky talks about it in TPFAP, I think theres a pretty good chance people knew about it before Phoenix posted about it or before we decided to give it a pretty name.

On a side note: Am I the only one who gets called 75% of the time I try this play? I'm not talking about getting trapped by a big hand that limped, I'm talking getting called by crap like 33, A9o, KTs ... its retarted.

[Phoenix1010]

Haha what the hell? I'm getting called out in a thread I didn't even participate in. Of course I wasn't the first one to use that move. I just came up with it on my own before anyone told me about, and I thought about it a lot and felt like I perfected it for myself, so I felt I was qualified to explain it. I'm pretty sure I put "invented" in quotation marks when I said that. Anyone who thought I was under the impression that I really invented anything is being silly.

-Phoenix

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Phoenix said he invented it

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, becuase no one would have thought of this actualy quite obvious move independently. Thanks Phoenix.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bite me.

[Nottom]

I knew what you meant by "invented" if it makes you happy.

[UncleDuke]

[ QUOTE ]
I just thought it was worth pointing out (since people are taking this more seriously than I anticipated or believed it was written in) that Harrington is talking about raising, NOT pushing, in deeper stacked online tournaments with a pretty good but not amazing hand early. This is about as far from a PVS as you can get other than folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may well be right that that's what Harrington says in his book. I'd have to go back through my copy and check. The prior poster is correct though that Harrington did push in a situation like that at the WSOP holding rags. He took it down, probably in part because of his reputation as a tight solid player.

[The once and future king]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Phoenix said he invented it

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, becuase no one would have thought of this actualy quite obvious move independently. Thanks Phoenix.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bite me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would it burn?