6-max VPIP- whats the lowest it can be for +ev

[krazyace5]

Could you get by with a 12% plus blinds vpip?

[Rocaix]

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Could you get by with a 12% plus blinds vpip?

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For SSNL probably, assuming you play decent postflop and don't pay off very often. But you probably know already that playing that tight is far from optimal in terms of both winrate and improving your play.

[krazyace5]

Yes I have a friend that wants to play like that and I told him it was too tight, I am just terrible at explaining things.

[edge]

I have seen a winning player around 11% VPIP. I try not to pay him off.

[theredpill5]

Problem is everyone is watching each other so closely with only 6 players on the table. I think they will notice. Only reason I see to only play 10 % of hands is if you can't play post-flop very well or are just allergic to money.

[TheWorstPlayer]

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Could you get by with a 12% plus blinds vpip?

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Yes. You could be profitable by only playing AA-QQ.

[canis582]

How high can your vpip be and still be profitable? I dont data mine, but I know my VPIP is high...I either bet out, fold or raise.

[wtfsvi]

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How high can your vpip be and still be profitable? I dont data mine, but I know my VPIP is high...I either bet out, fold or raise.

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That you either bet out, fold or raise has to do with your aggression factor, not your vpip. And I actually think one could win at small stakes holdem with a vpip of more than 95%. (100% is obviously not possible, since you have to fold 72o to the open pushes.) One would have to be good though.

As to the original question, you might be able to earn money playing only KK and AA, if you practise some table selection.

[TheWorstPlayer]

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And I actually think one could win at small stakes holdem with a vpip of more than 95%.

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This was actually a challenge from BobboFitos some time ago which I began taking him up on. I played the .01/.02 at UB. You could try searching (although it might be in archives by now) but I believe the challenge was to play 95% of hands and to achieve a positive win rate over something like 1K hands. Maybe it was more hands. I'm not sure. Anyways, I started out on a rush and was up 5 buyins or something after 200 hands. Then I got bored, though, and starting bluffing incessantly which, needless to say, didn't work out that well for me. I am firmly convinced that it can be done, though. The key is to be very aggressive when it is heads up (which is rare) and to just cut your losses when it is multi-way and you don't have a hand (which is not rare). The really hard part, though, is that you have to call a TON of raises playing 95% of hands so it actually becomes a lot more profitable to re-raise bluff preflop a decent amount of the time (usually min-reraise preflop and then pot the flop). It was definitely fun at the beginning but playing for $2 just gets old after a bit. I encourage everyone to try it out, though. I think if you could take it seriously it would really help your game. Maybe I will try it again, actually!

[Publos Nemesis]

Including the blinds my VPIP is around 20% at the $25 6-max, and I am a winning player. Clearly people start noticing that I hardly play, which is why I change tables regularly. Ussually, though, they don't notice until I am up a stack or two. When they start respecting my preflop raises I leave the table.

[Ghazban]

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Including the blinds my VPIP is around 20% at the $25 6-max, and I am a winning player. Clearly people start noticing that I hardly play, which is why I change tables regularly. Ussually, though, they don't notice until I am up a stack or two. When they start respecting my preflop raises I leave the table.

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Why don't you just change gears and start playing super-LAG when they've adjusted to your tightness? You are shorting your development as a player by leaving every time this occurs.

[Publos Nemesis]

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Why don't you just change gears and start playing super-LAG when they've adjusted to your tightness? You are shorting your development as a player by leaving every time this occurs.

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You make a good point. My roommate and I discuss whether 6-max SSNL actually hurts our development as poker players since we basically are just playing for the nuts. There is very little skill involved, except knowing when to fold or call with an overpair. I agree that if I wanted to grow I should start mixing it up more when I start getting respect. However, right now I am content with just earning $$. After school gets out next week I will probably try and develop as player and move up to the $50s, which I could have done months ago, but chose not to given how well I was playing at the $25s.

[TheWorstPlayer]

If you want to nut peddle, play full ring. That way you pay the blinds less frequently and you have more people there to make second best hands. 6m should really help your development if you play it without nut peddling because marginal hands become very profitable if you can make accurate reads and go with them.

[Publos Nemesis]

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If you want to nut peddle, play full ring. That way you pay the blinds less frequently and you have more people there to make second best hands. 6m should really help your development if you play it without nut peddling because marginal hands become very profitable if you can make accurate reads and go with them.

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I guess, but at the full ring game it's hard to get people to commit their stack with marginal hands. As you make clear, that is the key to 6-max. I abuse people who don't make good reads with their one pair hands. At the full ring, people lay down one pair all the time. I have gotten K high to pay me off for my entire stack when I have had a set in the 6-maxes. I have never seen even A-high call down in the full ring games.

Just look at the average pot-sizes, and you see that 6-max is almost always at the top. B/c stacks change hands faster at the 6-max, this more than makes up for the blinds. Including the blinds I win $ at every position except UTG.

[TheWorstPlayer]

You don't win money UTG?

[Publos Nemesis]

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You don't win money UTG?

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A couple of wierd hands throw off the UTG sample. I believe I got all in for a lot p/f with a monkey who had 96s when I had QQ. I also lost a couple of other hands like that.

[TheWorstPlayer]

OK. So probably your winning stats at the other positions are unreliable, too.

[Publos Nemesis]

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OK. So probably your winning stats at the other positions are unreliable, too.

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Could be. 10K hands is not enough to really get an accurate picture of position stats.