Can it be +EV to call a reraise when you know you are dominated?

[swedeD]

Background:

I have been dealt trash hands for a while and my table image is pretty tight. I feel I have to make some aggressiv moves preflop so I get more action when I get big cards (QQ or better) later.

Villian is also tight, and I'm sure he have AK or better, maybe AQs. He wouldnt do this with JJ or worse.

What is my action without thinking about the meta game? Is a call +EV?

What is my action considering the meta game? Does a fold preflop give me more action later or is it better to call? (a fold may make people think I just tried to steal)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button ($114.2)
SB :#A500AF(villian)/ ($51.25)
BB ($117.18)
UTG ($285.05)
MP ($96.07)
Hero ($146.25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB :#A500AF(villian)/ posts a blind of $0.5.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB (villian) raises to $9.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP folds, Hero???

[Muisyle]

Villain's stack is way too small to call.

[swedeD]

ok. What about the meta game?

[TrailofTears]

[ QUOTE ]
ok. What about the meta game?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are very little metagame considerations in SSNL online. Call or fold. I probably call here. I hate minraisers and I love to find places to punish them. Folding is probably better, though.

-T

[wall_st]

I would fold, unless this guy is completely retarded you are behind to practically everything or dominated. You would be correct thinking that he is playing for his entire stack here, but unless you flop some sort of monster you are throwing away money here 3 out of 4 times.

[excession]

Costs you $4.50 to call.

Pot is already $15
If you are confident he will call off the rest of his stack ($40) you are paying $4.50 to either fold on flop or win $55.

I think it's pretty close but if you are really sure of your read you can let it go with a clear conscience. I don't like the re-raise to 9.50 - it looks like he wants a call and thinks that psychologically you are more likely to call 9.50 than $10. If he wanted you to fold - if he had a big but vulnerable hand - I think he would have bet $10 here. It smells like AA to me.

That said I know a lot of players that would overdefend with any pair here..and if you put him on a monster pair like KK or QQ then your ace would be good 1/3 of the time.

I setted twice against pre-flop re-raisers last week on the $100 tables. Both times I had set over set against them and won their stacks. They had 33 and 77 (I had 77 and TT) and yet had reraised pre-flop to $7 and $9 respectively.

You are OOP though - and if you call him you are committed to betting an ace flop in effect - think I would fold and just chalk it up to bad luck that he had a big hand when you tried a steal

[subzero]

Preflop
Ah Th
vs. AA 12%
vs. AK 28%
vs. AQ 28%
vs. KK 32%
vs. QQ 32%

3 ways to have AA, 12 ways to have AK or AQ, 6 ways to have KK or QQ:

(3 * .12) + (12 * .28) + (12 * .28) + (6 *.32) + (6 *.32) = 10.92

10.92 / 39 (possible hands) = .28 or 2.5:1 underdog before the flop (on average)

You're getting 3.4:1 on your money, so calling is okay here.

[fuzzbox]

he doesnt have enough money for you to try to outflop/outplay him, so gotta fold.

Nice big deep stacks, then you can think about calling, but he is far too shallow.

[TreyOfLight]

[ QUOTE ]
Ah Th
vs. AA 12%
vs. AK 28%
...
You're getting 3.4:1 on your money, so calling is okay here.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's OK if you're calling a push, but when there's money behind, you can't use preflop equities this way to justify a call.

You've still got three streets to play with no clue where you're at. A ten puts you ahead of AQ/AK, but far behind QQ/KK. An ace puts you ahead of QQ/KK but far behind AA/AQ/AK. And so on.

You'll flop a flush about one time in a hundred; two pair/trips/boat about five times that often. On the remaining 94% of flops, if he bets out it's guess or fold time. If you feel you can outplay him regardless, fine, but the preflop decision is nowhere near as clear as you suggest.

[subzero]

Thanks for commenting on the math. It was my first attempt and your explanation makes total sense.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Fold. Stacks too short.

[JaBlue]

it can be +EV especially when you are deepstacked and you know exactly what a player has.

For instance: I raise in late position with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif with 250BB. The big blind re-raises. He's tight so I know this means either AA, AK, or KK. In this situation a call is good because his hand is well defined and you have good implied odds.

Here the stacks are too short for you to have any implied odds and you should therefore fold.