Question On Position

[Nalapoint1]

Why is small blind considered by many to be worst position in Hold Em? I think it might be better than button.

[DcifrThs]

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Why is small blind considered by many to be worst position in Hold Em? I think it might be better than button.

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when you do understand this game on a deeper level and look back on these posts you'll laugh. especially about the one about not beating play money players.

but especially this one.

the thing is, you get to act 2nd to last as the sb and bet better odds before the flop to the tune of 1/2 a sb. but i'd rather be the bb than the sb because i get to close the action a lot of the time (id say a majority of the time the opener raises get a call or 2 and its then on the bb to act last...if you're the sb you dont know if you'll have to pay another bet to see the flop when the bb raises).

now that the BB is > sb in those terms (but the cost of it is 1/2 sb above the sb), i'd go to say look, its only ONE street in a 4 street game. and on 2 of the next streets, the bets are double in size. now in holdem, as in any card game like draw or whatever, you can loosen your openers and playing in position (late position/button) because of a)fewer players to act after you before the flop or draw, and b) the information you get on later streets from the previous players' actions.

now b is HUGELY valuable in holdem because you can TAKE a free card rather than GIVE it (when you check hu in the sb vs. the button you're giving the button the option of taking a free card...likewise when you're the button you get to take those options and free cards when you choose.) b is also extremely important because you get to take down pots for ONE bet when you couldn't do it in the sb.

lets say the flop comes K53rb and you limped with 98s on teh button after 3 limpers and the blinds are in. there's 6 sbs there in the pot and if they all check to you and the blinds aren't consistently going for c'rs then you should bet very very often unless you have a reason not to.you will win that pot way more than 1 in 7 times on the flop alone. and sometimes, a6 or whatever will call teh flop and fold the turn when you bet again heads up. BECAUSE YOU HAVE POSISITION, you've learned a lot about the quality of your opponents holdings and have been able to judge that you'll take 6:1 on your bet because it will work (take the whole potdown w/ 9 high) probably 30 or so % of the time.

theres tons of other examples but postflop position on 3 streets is way more valuable tha preflop position (also notice how in the sb you have to take your postflop position into acct re: hand selection ie. you have a bad postflop position)

-Barron

[Nalapoint1]

I may be wrong but I am trying to think this through.I am talking post flop now.By checking you now get the chance to act last and if you tighten uo your starting hands just a little you can now raise the button and if he does not have a hand that has a pc. of the flop you pick up the pot.If you put yourself in the spot to act last arent you now "stealing" his positional advantage?Using your flop in your response and you bet first and it folds to button and he raises and sb reraises wont he usually fold 9 high.

[shemp]

Do you think you'd make money if you had to put 1/2 a bet into every pot preflop(except for the BB)? How about acting first postflop everyhand? It's nice to have so many hands act before you preflop, consider why that is so, combine it with the increased importance of postflop play, and maybe you'll change your mind.

[rigoletto]

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By checking you now get the chance to act last

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No you don't. If somebody checks or there is a raise after you there are still people to act. Also when you have a hand you don't want to see the flop checked through.

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and if you tighten uo your starting hands just a little you can now raise the button and if he does not have a hand that has a pc. of the flop you pick up the pot. If you put yourself in the spot to act last arent you now "stealing" his positional advantage?

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Yes, but what happens when he 3-bets (with a draw or a worse hand). For this to work you would have to c/r the flop a lot and people will recognize this and start 3-betting you more. Besides if he calls you have now taken initiative on the next street and the positional advantage is his again.

I have told you earlier that I'm willing to help and I stand by that, but these kinds of very basic questions really belongs in the beginner-, micro- or smallstakes forums. I'm just saying that because I don't want you to get flamed in this forum for posting beginner stuff. Every question deserves an answer, but they will be just as good in those forums mentioned (and you can always PM me if you want me to look at a specific post of yours).

[DcifrThs]

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I may be wrong but I am trying to think this through.I am talking post flop now.By checking you now get the chance to act last and if you tighten uo your starting hands just a little you can now raise the button and if he does not have a hand that has a pc. of the flop you pick up the pot.

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no.from the sb you often dont c'r the button on those b/c he has the choice of extracting the max from you. many great players who bluff will call that c'r to see what you do on the turn. or the river...since you c'red its CLEAR you dont like you're hand, or else you'd bet and get callers or wait till the turn. its called hand reading and most people who bluff that button are capable of it unless their blind agros, in which case its wrong to bluff them anyways.

imo you need to do a little more studying on the basics of holdem before tackling these things because they come a little later in your learning.


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If you put yourself in the spot to act last arent you now "stealing" his positional advantage?Using your flop in your response and you bet first and it folds to button and he raises and sb reraises wont he usually fold 9 high.

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i dont know what you're saying here...please restateso i can understand and i'll do my best...

-Barron

[Nalapoint1]

Flop is K53rb with button holding 98s.If sb bets and it folds to button who raises and sb reraises will button call or fold with 9 high in this situation.I thought it was always an advantage to act last.I am not saying you do this every time you are sb but often enough to make button play good starting hands.If sb is raising and cr from other positions and winning his share of showdowns doesnt his table image come into play from sb?

[Klepton]

stop trolling

[DcifrThs]

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Flop is K53rb with button holding 98s.If sb bets and it folds to button who raises and sb reraises will button call or fold with 9 high in this situation.I thought it was always an advantage to act last.I am not saying you do this every time you are sb but often enough to make button play good starting hands.If sb is raising and cr from other positions and winning his share of showdowns doesnt his table image come into play from sb?

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no man.

like i said, from your posts its clear your missing some basic concepts...why would you want to put in 3 small bets to bluff the button ?? thats silly...image or not its not worth it.

further, betting out to GET the button to raise on a bluff when others can have something is no good either.

betting from the sb on an unraised K53 rb flop though IS sometimes a good play b/c you'll buy the pot enough of the time against the right people

you should be check folding in the sb instead of bluff raising a normal button b/c its -ev and he can call and extract the most when a head and fold for 1 bet when behind, which given a bet he's probably not doing enough to invest less relatively speaking (in terms of odds)


why not put your money in where its +ev??

so id say study a bit more and definately follow rigoletto's advice. these are beginner questions. if he's willing to help you like that i'd jump on that opportunity.

-Barron

[AceHigh]

The micro limit and begginer forums are requesting your presence. You'd getter better responses to your questions on there.

[poker1O1]

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The micro limit and begginer forums are requesting your presence. You'd getter better responses to your questions on there.

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