QQ when 2 A flop

[penisclaw]

Got no reads on the villian, had only seen him for about 10 hands.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG folds, Hero...?

[Elbie]

I would have raised his flop bet and slowed down (maybe even folded) if 3-bet. The "normal" play from somebody holding trip Aces here would be to checkraise either the flop or the turn.

[psyduck]

I would call flop and value-raise turn. Let him keep bluffing at you. If you raise immediately, BB might fold on this drawless board (watch out if he coldcalls 2, he might have an ace), and SB might fold as well.

[Elbie]

I think he needs to raise the flop to find out about SB and BB (they are more dangerous than the flop bettor IMO). If any of them coldcalls his raise he's in trouble.

[aK13]

Raise.

[ArturiusX]

I favour a raise here. Waiting for the turn gives SB a cheap card.

[moot]

Raise. If 3bet I'll fold, if bet into on the turn I'll fold. Bet the turn, fold to a check raise. Check behind on the river (fearing a check raise, or someone calling down with a weak ace, worried we have the higher one, like AK). I would not value bet this on the end. I think that's my line...

I don't think we can simply fold, and just calling puts us in a situation for a very pricey showdown that might have been avoided. Raising is the only option, IMO.

Also, if the SB is willing to call two I'm rethinking my plan. I might just check on the turn and see if anyone wants to bet the river (at which point I honestly have to consider a fold). I don't mind giving a free turn card because anyone who doesn't already beat me on the turn is a either a monster underdog (who made a huge error putting bets in on the flop), or has the flush draw is correct to call anyway (though yes, if we knew for a fact that they had the flush draw and not an A then we would want to bet, because our share of equity at the time is much greater than theirs).

[thesharpie]

I call this down, usually bet if checked to.

If you had a read you could raise the flop and fold if 3 bet which would save you about 1BB, that wouldn't look good on your table image, though.

I don't like laying this down without a read, and the only card you're worried about is a king. I'd rather let him bluff and not run the risk of folding the best hand against an unknown.

[thesharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
Waiting for the turn gives SB a cheap card.

[/ QUOTE ]

What card are we worried about? A king is the only one he should fold on the flop if raised against, as well as a pocket pair.

This is pretty much WA/WB in position, except he could have a flush draw which you're not folding anyway.

[@bsolute_luck]

moot, i think i agree with you on most points. i think the only thing i disagree with is to fold to a 3-bet. i'd probably call the 3-bet and see what happens on the turn.

i'm tempted to call down, but a 3-bet on the flop with a pair of 8s or flush draw is a bit aggressive IMO, signaling a LAG/MANIAC, which even in 10 hands, i think you would see. but if bet into on the turn after a 3-bet flop, i think i'd let it go...again w/o a read.

and if you decide to check behind on the turn and fold when bet into on the river seems weak to me. either bet the turn and fold to a c/r or check turn and check/call river.

[jacki]

Blinds at the microlimits love to lead out against a preflop raiser when the flop is paired, as some kind of lame ass bluff attempt.

I raise the flop, and go from there.

[topspin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Waiting for the turn gives SB a cheap card.

[/ QUOTE ]

What card are we worried about? A king is the only one he should fold on the flop if raised against, as well as a pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

A pair of 8's is also getting incorrect odds to draw if facing two cold.

I'd go ahead and raise this flop too. BB could just be taking a shot on this flop, and there is no reason to think he'll lead the turn.

[silkyslim]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise. If 3bet I'll fold

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldnt fold the flop to a 3 bet. Just call one more small bet.

[krimson]

I would raise here. It is a bit of a dangerous flop and I want to find out if i'm ahead while it's cheap. If SB cold calls 2 bets you might be in trouble. If BB calls down flop and turn i'd probably take the free showdown.

[istewart]

Only K8 is drawing to 5 outs as I can see it. I don't see why we want SB out.

[topspin]

[ QUOTE ]
Only K8 is drawing to 5 outs as I can see it. I don't see why we want SB out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm happy to raise and have SB cold-call two also. I think there's a good value component to raising the flop.

What reason do you have to offer a cheap card here? All you've got is QQ. This isn't a hand I'm looking to slowplay on the flop.

[istewart]

What hands do we want the SB to fold? He's likely drawing to 2 outs or runner-runner. What hands is he getting odds to call with 10:1 but not 5:1?

[Disconnected]

I don't think that we would raise to fold SB with hands he could call a single bet. It's a value raise in the sense that if he's on a flush draw (or even if BB is on a flush draw), we're getting bets into the pot while ahead.

[Jaran]

...raises. If he 3bets, I call, turn a Q and c/r his ass.

-Jaran

[thesharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
Only K8 is drawing to 5 outs as I can see it. I don't see why we want SB out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Most of the time the pair of 8s is just going to have 2 outs against you.