What hands am I missing?

[SlyGuy]

I see all these people here with V$IP/PFR of 27/20 or 30/20.

I can't figure out what else to play to get my stats up there. I am sitting at 23/13 ( $1/2 6max).

Can someone enlighten me on what I am missing? Sure I can raise more marginal hands but then I jsut get stranded when the flop doesn't work out so well. My WTSD is 32% maybe thats too low and I should call down more often with a peice of the flop?

I just recently took up shorthanded play so anything will help. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mungpo]

You need to go to showdown more often. What is your ATSB percentage?

[SlyGuy]

23.45

[billyjex]

you need to steal more. get it up to about 30% or so.

also, what are your blind defense stats?

[stripsqueez]

you can crush the 1/2 6 max game on party with a voluntarily put money in pot percentage of 23 - if you added a bunch of hands because someone else plays them profitably i wouldnt be as confident about your capacity to crush the game

your an expert player when you make your pre-flop choices based on what your going to do post flop - in other words the right pre-flop hands to play are the ones you have when they push the chips your way

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[gehrig]

I'm a little more aggressive at 1/2 - 25/15 after 13k.

Against players who really don't like to fold before the flop and don't really like to fold after it either (which describes the majority of 1/2 players), just about all the money you make from a raise is from your hand's equity edge. When your raises don't earn you money in other ways (making the blinds fold, buying position, isolating players, taking the betting lead), less hands are worth raising.

The majority of advice in this forum is written about a very different game than 1/2. Most of it still good advice for 1/2, but the most aggressive plays I don't think are really profitable. Against loose passives all you can really do is value bet. Maybe someone smarter than me will disagree though.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
you can crush the 1/2 6 max game on party with a voluntarily put money in pot percentage of 23 - if you added a bunch of hands because someone else plays them profitably i wouldnt be as confident about your capacity to crush the game

your an expert player when you make your pre-flop choices based on what your going to do post flop - in other words the right pre-flop hands to play are the ones you have when they push the chips your way

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really true. If you are failing at 1/2, adding marginal hands will not make you a big winner.

Krishan

[TStoneMBD]

im currently 26/20.5 with attsb 42. i fold my bb 45% of the time to raises and my vpip SB is like 32%. i really dont know how to get my vpip up to 30% and dont plan on it any time soon. i dont think you can just go ahead and play an extra 5% of your hands when you dont know if they will show profit or not. once you get good enough you should be able to determine when fishy looking hands become more profitable.

in general though, id imagine that players with higher vpips than me are a result of them defending their blinds more often along with completing in the sb. its also probably a result of limping behind limpers with weak hands like Q9o, K3s, etc. something which i dont do regularly.

however, im playing 5/10 atm. intuitively, i would imagine that my vpip/pfr percentages would drop a little bit once i move up to 10/20 because the games are slightly tougher. a large portion of my vpip/pfr comes from isolating weak players with hands like 67s. as there will be more openraising at 10/20, i can no longer play these types of hands. this really makes me wonder how having 30/20 stats at this level becomes optimal.

[SlyGuy]

I am not failing at all. Right now I am running at 3bb/100. It's not a large sample that why I ask. If I move to 2/4 in the near future will 23/13 be sufficient to win at that level?

[ReadingCompMan]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not failing at all. Right now I am running at 3bb/100. It's not a large sample that why I ask. If I move to 2/4 in the near future will 23/13 be sufficient to win at that level?

[/ QUOTE ]

He wasn't saying you are failing. He is saying failing player should not look to increase their VP$IP as a way to become winning players.

ReadingComprehensionMan

[Silverback]

Many good players have played at 23vpip 15 pfr and moved all the way up to $10/$20
If your making 3bb/100 then dont worry about adding more hands.

When you do come to add more hands, no one here knows what you play, so they cant suggest new hands,

So, review hands in PokerTracker, e.g if ATs-A8s UTG is performing well, consider adding A7s, etc etc

[Wynton]

I am in the same situation as you, playing mostly 2/4 and 3/6, and wondering what hands I could possibly be adding.

Best responses I've received are those who suggest I should be playing blinds more liberally.

Still, I have become increasingly convinced that a VP$P of 20-23 is a very effective style at 3/6, 2/4 and 1/2 (especially 2/4 and 1/2). I understand the logic of playing more hands against worst players, but my personal experience is that tight play pays off better at those games.

Perhaps this is because I'm just not good enough post-flop. Perhaps it's because I don't have enough of a long-term perspective. All I can say is that I feel increasingly comfortable with my supposedly too-low VP$P at those low limits. Maybe one day I'll be able to articulate sound reasons why.

[TStoneMBD]

theres no reason to have a vpip above 20 at 3/6 imo. 6max is a very different animal.

[SlyGuy]

Well I assumed that experienced players could take a pretty good guess as to what I am plying to get my V$IP to where it is. In general the worst hand I am playing not in the SB is 98s. I'll play suited cards for half a bet in the SB much more often or even unsuited connectors like 9T, 89, 78.

[SlyGuy]

Where do you play 2/4 and 3/6 shorthanded?

I am curious where the games are best at those level shorthanded.

[ReadingCompMan]

[ QUOTE ]
theres no reason to have a vpip above 20 at 3/6 imo. 6max is a very different animal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wynton is talking about shorthand 3/6.

ReadingComprehensionMan

[SlyGuy]

Is this an attempt to insult me?

[ReadingCompMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this an attempt to insult me?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I am here as a public service to improve communication between board members. I admit, my name is a bit of a dig but just a small one.

ReadingComprehensionMan.

[Wynton]

I play 2/4 and 3/6 at Pokerstars.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
Where do you play 2/4 and 3/6 shorthanded?

I am curious where the games are best at those level shorthanded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stars, pokerroom, and paradise all have good 2/4 and 3/6 shorthand games.

Krishan

[Silverback]

btw what players do you see with 27/20 or 30/20

Theres actually very few.

[SlyGuy]

Folded BB to Steal is 70.15%