40-80NL Hand from Commerce

[rohjoh]

This is a hand from a few nights ago at the Commerce 40-80NL game.

4 Handed
SB Maniac ($20,000)
BB Hero ($8400)
UTG unknown ($20,000)
Button: ($15,000)

Hero dealt 9c8s
UTG Raises to $280, Button folds, SB calls, Hero calls(pot $840)
Flop : Kh 9s 2s
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks
Turn: 8c
SB checks, BB checks, UTG raises to $500, SB raised $1300 more to $1800, Hero??? (Pot $3140)

Maniac had doubled hero up a few hands earlier with 44 vs 10,10.

[Yeti]

Maybe make it $3500 and not put another dollar in after that.

[spahk]

how often have you seen maniac pull the turn check-raise? what if anything has he shown? why didn't original raiser make a continuation bet?

[stankybank]

are one of these players Terry from London? Also, are one of these players an Asian man?

[res1cue]

I personally think that making it 3500$ (or even more) is a good idea. from what I read and my gut feeling on the hand would be that the UTG probably has something like TT or even JJ and when he bet on the turn the maniac felt weakness in his bet and put him to the test. I think that you had them both beat. (unless someone is slow playing a set..)

later
let me know what you think

[Klepton]

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Hand from Commerce

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Also, are one of these players an Asian man?

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I am 99% percent sure the answer is yes

[betgo]

I don't play at this level and I know it's short handed, but I don't see the purpose in calling a raise with 98o. I can't believe the other players are that bad that you can take advantage of them postflop enough to make up for that.

[thabadguy]

I think you're most def good here. Maniacs pull these kinda moves when they sense weakness, hell I've done it a ton of times with absolute trash, the one thing maniacs rely on more than anything is making better hands fold. I would pop the Maniac back, in such a way that he knows I am pot committed and he has no fold equity. I dont see a set here.
I dont know if it would be the right or wrong play, but against a maniac, I would just lead out and bet on a flop even where i have middle pair. I guess its just an ego thing with me, but I just cannot let anyone out aggro me at the table.

[creedofhubris]

Raise the hell out of it.

Why are you in this pot preflop with 98o?

[BluffTHIS!]

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Why are you in this pot preflop with 98o?

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Trying to take weak (trash) hands like this against maniacs in the thought that you can somehow outplay them with it postflop is an exercise in masochism in most cases. It is awfully hard to make a move on a maniac who simply won't fold marginal hands.

[rohjoh]

I put the maniac on a draw, and the orignal raiser on a hand like A9, A10 or JJ. I think the only moves here are all in, with the stack sizes at the table, or fold. Calling is terrible, and making it $3500, is just asking the maniac to chase his draw.

[jhall23]

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I put the maniac on a draw, and the orignal raiser on a hand like A9, A10 or JJ. I think the only moves here are all in, with the stack sizes at the table, or fold. Calling is terrible, and making it $3500, is just asking the maniac to chase his draw.

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Are you saying that by pushing you'll make the maniac fold his draw? Don't you WANT him to chase it????

[Yeti]

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I put the maniac on a draw, and the orignal raiser on a hand like A9, A10 or JJ. I think the only moves here are all in, with the stack sizes at the table, or fold. Calling is terrible, and making it $3500, is just asking the maniac to chase his draw.

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Actually I'd say the maniac either has you crushed, or has air. I can't see him playing a draw like this.

My raise lets you find out pretty cheaply where you are at.

[rohjoh]

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I put the maniac on a draw, and the orignal raiser on a hand like A9, A10 or JJ. I think the only moves here are all in, with the stack sizes at the table, or fold. Calling is terrible, and making it $3500, is just asking the maniac to chase his draw.

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Actually I'd say the maniac either has you crushed, or has air. I can't see him playing a draw like this.

My raise lets you find out pretty cheaply where you are at.

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My read on the maniac was on, nut flush draw, and he called my all in, problem was not the maniac in this hand, it was the original raiser...

I pushed all in, original raiser pushed all in over the top of me, and the maniac called with the nut flush draw, as I knew he would. Creating a main pot of $25,000+, and a side pot of $28,000. Original raiser flipped over K9, and took down a nice pot.

[kyro]

I'm dumb. N/M

[anuj]

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Could you explain why you called a 3.5BB raise with 98o leaving you with only 7BB behind?

[/ QUOTE ]8000 is 100 BB not 10BB so he called a 3.5BB and is left with about 96.5BB (actually a little more since he had more than 8000).

[kyro]

oh my god. i'm an idiot. n/m. i'll go back to the dumb people forum

[sxz18]

Just curious, but is it possible that the preflop raiser has KK? I would play KK the exact same way and would be delighted to see a raise and a reraise behind me...

[Yeti]

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I put the maniac on a draw, and the orignal raiser on a hand like A9, A10 or JJ. I think the only moves here are all in, with the stack sizes at the table, or fold. Calling is terrible, and making it $3500, is just asking the maniac to chase his draw.

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Actually I'd say the maniac either has you crushed, or has air. I can't see him playing a draw like this.

My raise lets you find out pretty cheaply where you are at.

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My read on the maniac was on, nut flush draw, and he called my all in, problem was not the maniac in this hand, it was the original raiser...

I pushed all in, original raiser pushed all in over the top of me, and the maniac called with the nut flush draw, as I knew he would. Creating a main pot of $25,000+, and a side pot of $28,000. Original raiser flipped over K9, and took down a nice pot.

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Why didn't you give these reads in the original post then?

FWIW, checking twice and then checkraising most of the time in my experience is either a set dying for someone to bet, or nothing. I'm confused as to why he wouldn't lead the turn with a strong draw/made hand.

But, anyway, UL.

[betgo]

The results are symptomatic of the problems with calling a raise with 98o. You made a lower 2-pair, which is about what you would expect with this hand.

If it was heads up insted of 4-handed, this is a calling hand. Otherwise the only reason I can see calling would be if you had position so as to steal later on. Also, if the later action was really wild and you could get payed off if you made a straight or something. Maybe in the rebuy period of a tournament or in a real low blind game or early in a low buyin tournament.

I am not that crazy about going allin with two pair. It is hard to lay down, but with action from 2 players, you may be beat.

[Ray Zee]

people yet to act behind you in no limit is much more of a factor than limit. and there it is a big one. few players think enough about that. as it just gets you just every once in awhile.

[Tony.T]

and u dont like that?