Proper $11 strategy: How much aggression in the right amount?

[dhende3]

First of all a little background. I started SnGs at the 11s and quickly turned 200 bucks into 1k with solid (medium-tight) play, not standard SnG strategy. I would guess I was 45% ITM over 300-400. I then started playing the 22s. I was breaking even at first playing solid, then discovered the value of aggressive play (Gap concept and FE) and turned that into 4.5k (without rakeback). Then my car got destroyed by some thugs and I cashed out all but $500. For the past 2 weeks I was back at the 11s and struggling a bit with the strategy that I used to beat the $22s. Here are my stats:

381 $11s

1st - 53 - 13.9%
2nd - 36 - 9.4%
3rd - 48 - 12.5%
OOTM - 244

ITM - 35.9%
ROI - 11.9%

I have made enough to bankroll myself at the 22s so I am pleased, yet I am intrigued by the fact that I cannot beat the 11s for substantial gain anymore. I think part of the reason is that $11 players have no concept of the bubble. They are willing to make very loose calls with any Ax, PP, K-high card and constantly bust me in 4th or 5th. This is because the big stacks are normally loose players that got lucky early versus the other loose players. Also they constantly minraise my blinds... I know this gives me the pot odds to call... but things are a bit different when you are sitting there with J10s in the BB with T1000 (before posting) in level 5.

What is one supposed to do? Wait for a big hand in levels 4+ and get blinded out? There has to be a a good medium.

I didn't keep close stats when I first started playing but I am sure that I had a higher ROI than I do now. Additionally, some of the most successful $11 players according to Poker Prophecy (ABPAAM, BlackCard, TED42, GiaCacLuong) play very conservatively. I dominate them consistently with aggression but they seem to get the best of everyone else.

Any good $11 players with some suggestions?

[yid3655]

I have near enough exactly the same problem

Started with a bank of $330 on Jan 1st for $10 stts and have probably made about $1000 profit, I play for fun so im happy with that. On my ventures to the $20's I have probably done aswell results wise and the play is definately better. When I do switch back to $10's it usually takes me time to adjust.

Am considering to move up to $20's permanently

[coolhand67]

I have been playing PP 10+1 SNG's for the past two months now. I learned to play through a friend of mine (Fattony21), books and this site. My results are similar to those posted. I play a tight first 3 levels and get aggressive 4+. I have been trying to fine tune my mid-game play where pushing and stealing the blinds are essential. I review my hand histories and the vast majority of my moves are +EV. I am hoping that it is just the variance that is killing my game for now.

508 Tourney’s
ITM: 35.6%
1st: 13.2%
2nd: 10.0%
3rd: 12.4%
4th: 14.2%
5th: 15.4%

If anyone has any insight as into strategies into later game play in the 10’s. As a basic reference I am using Ben Franklin’s summary of the thread started by AleoMagus on how to beat the 10+1’s. I do not have to bankroll to move up to the 20's and I want to build it up at the 10's before I progress.

-Cool

[Iamafish]

Im digging this up 'cuz I have a bit of the same problem.

I use to kill the 22’s and 33’s on poker room. Im making a hard effort to switch to PP becuase the STT are shorter and more players at PP. With the 1500 stack on poker room 4-tabling I’d only get in about 10 in 3 hours (except I made a good amount).

After loosing my roll in blackjack Im here at the 11’s (I wouldn't even wanna move up to the 22’s or 33’s yet, 55's sound nice -- more post-flop play and 1000 stacks -- wish I had the roll).

In 11's, pushing any 2 at level 5 (or bubble) does work quiet well. But Its usually only good if you have the villian covered for half his stack or more. They call with any 2! lol.

I can see why variance is so huge. Although there is a way to make this work.

Yesterday I changed my play every single time in a new game. I made several mistakes which cost me the tourny, so its no ‘swing’ for me, but I learned a lot doing this.

At level 3-4 I get my stack ready for level 5. At level 5 or on the bubble I can push with any two, but soon have to slow the aggression down. I kinda needed a decent hand to push with becuase they soon WILL call, and when they do they will see Im not pushing trash.

Basically what Im saying here is play extremly aggressive and then quickly tighten up. Those horrible players that get to the bubble with deep stacks and have that huge calling range break me.

Anyone have anymore thoughts/ comments.

Im going to post a few hands that I screwed up when I get home.

Peace.

[Tilt]

I don't think your sample size is necessarily enough to indicate that your $11 play has fallen apart.

Nevertheless, I think sometimes reading a lot of the posts here can actually make your low stakes game worse in some ways. At the 10's, you have to figure out who is a gambler before you start pushing preflop. And alot of players are willing to call huge raises just to see a flop and then fold on it at this level. Preflop fold equity is lower, but post flop equity is higher.

[Blarg]

You know, at 381 tourneys, just a handful more firsts would have a very out of proportion effect on your ROI. And a few more firsts would certainly be very easily possible whether you're great or terrible.

So it's hard to say if things are as bad as you think they are, regarding your ability to beat the game. Maybe you're taking the stats for more than they're worth.

You did say your results earlier were better, so...there could be nothing even slightly peculiar about your results over the last two weeks -- just a bit of a slowdown.

I saved something I wrote about the 10's the other day, when someone else was asking about how to deal with how loose they are. It's a question that gets asked every day or three. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I wanted to have it on hand to think about if I started feeling screwy in the 10's. Lemme go dig it up, in case anyone finds it worth anything.

(tikc-tock, tick-tock) Here it is:

The play is looser, and you're losing more. So probably you're not adapting to the looser games.

Loose games have people who call too much, push too much, or both. On the 10's, it's generally that they call too much. That's what you'll have to adapt to.

Expect your pushes to get called. A lot. Even when it makes no sense whatever to be calling you.

When everybody calls you all the time, your variance will go up no matter how good a player you are, because stealing blinds is extremely important in SNG's, and you won't be able to try it without seeing a lot of showdowns. That's not necessarily either good or bad, because the variance could be upward too, but lets luck play a bigger part in your game. You will either win or lose a lot of money really fast when so many of your steal attempts -- and legit hands too -- see a showdown.

You can do your best to inject some skill into the equation in these looser games by being adjusting your steals so that they're determined more by showdown value than by the things these players don't pay as much attention to as they should, like comparative stack sizes and positions.

If people are calling their whole stacks to defend 7-5 offsuit, in other words, stealing because of stack sizes and position won't work. You won't get free blinds; you'll get called. These players don't care about or understand stack sizes or position; they just don't want you to bully them, especially when they could make an inside straight.

So instead of putting too much reliance on ferreting out the smart move, see if you can try to put yourself in the position to benefit from the dumb one.