Is this straight draw worth calling until the river?

[pokerlaw]

Reads: MP bets small when he doesnt have much
SB is a calling station with low hand valuation.
BB seems fairly tight.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t1455)
BB (t2210)
UTG (t1130)
MP (t4035)
Hero (t4670)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls t150, Hero calls t150, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t600) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t450</font>, MP folds, Hero calls t450, SB calls t450.

Turn: (t1950) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets t450</font>, Hero calls t450, SB folds.

River: (t2850) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t450</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t3300

[tomdemaine]

fold pre-flop, fold on the flop, fold on the turn, fold on the river. Other than that fine /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[jah0550]

[ QUOTE ]
fold pre-flop, fold on the flop, fold on the turn, fold on the river. Other than that fine /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
lol. why are you playing 67 with 7xBB?

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
why are you playing 67 with 7xBB?

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unless my math is off, I believe I had over 31xBB...

[zambonidrivr]

i don't even see a straight here. looks like you had trip 4's with a 10 kicker you jackass.

-NH, well played

[Insty]

[ QUOTE ]
fold pre-flop, fold on the flop, fold on the turn, fold on the river. Other than that fine /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

and fold the next hand as well in case you are tempted to play it too.

[zambonidrivr]

why are you calling this hand? what is your SN?

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Reads: MP bets small when he doesnt have much
SB is a calling station with low hand valuation.
BB seems fairly tight.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (5 handed) converter

SB (t1455)
BB (t2210)
UTG (t1130)
MP (t4035)
Hero (t4670)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7, 6.
1 fold, MP calls t150, Hero calls t150, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t600) 8, 4, T (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets t450, MP folds, Hero calls t450, SB calls t450.

Turn: (t1950) 4 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets t450, Hero calls t450, SB folds.

River: (t2850) 4 (2 players)
BB bets t450, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t3300

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not a big fan of the flop call for several reasons:

1) The player you read as tight is making a significant bet.

2) SB was still yet to act. (Probably not going to raise, but it is still a consideration.)

3) If the turn is a 9, you have the sucker end of the straight.

I would never call on the turn. How many outs do you have at this point? Let it go.

[Nathan183]

He bet 3/4 of the pot on the flop and you have a gutshot. FOLD. The turn bet looks weak, but he could easily be trapping with a FH, in which case, you are drawing completely dead. What do you do when a 5 hits and he goes all-in?

[nokona13]

I don't mind taking a flop here. You've got a huge stack and a good hand to see a cheap flop. You get a well disguised draw, and a tight player bets. Good, your implied odds are good to hit now, and I don't think calling here is terrible, as long as you could make that play with trips as well on that board. When the board pairs I think either you're drawing dead or your implied odds have just died, since he'll be scared by a boat on any big bet, so I think maybe you have to fold the turn.

[Unarmed]

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why are you calling this hand? what is your SN?

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG everyone just relax. Hero has a well concealed double GS with no dirty outs and great position to stack off Villain if he connects. If Villain had hero covered calling the flop would be 100% correct IMO.

[Phil Van Sexton]

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why are you calling this hand? what is your SN?

[/ QUOTE ]

Relax people. He had 31BBs which is like 930 at level 2 in a party SnG. Loose? Maybe. Horrible? No.

That's being said, I'd probably push on the flop.

[45suited]

I don't see why everyone hates seeing the flop here. He's got the stack to do it and there are other significant stacks in the hand as well. What is so bad about seeing a flop cheaply with a hand that plays well multi-way, high implied odds, and good position?

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
why are you calling this hand? what is your SN?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since just about everyone thinks this was a horrible play, my thoughts on playing it:

Preflop - I am the chip leader. I like hands like this in multiway pots, and have yet to play such a situation this game. For those of you who don't play pokerstars, there is a TON of time before blinds start to nearly threaten my stack - 200/400 level in over 20 minutes. SB and BB dont really raise much, so i expect to see this flop. I would fold to a RR.

Flop - I have an open ended st8 draw which is hard to see, increasing my implied odds. busting someone when it hits would make my stack VERY nice entering bubble play. I feel that SB will call also, he is VERY loose (was the 3rd to call an all in on level 1 w 66, the board flushed, so they split it)...I like my odds here.

Note - granted a 9 makes JQ the better st8, but I doubt BB would raise w that, and SB is just so bad so far I put him on just about nothing.

Turn - yeah, prob not the best call, but not horrible IMO. I dont figure him for trip 4s and certainly not a boat, yet at least.

Both short stacks busted the next hand and I went on taking first during 200/400....

[pokerlaw]

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That's being said, I'd probably push on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting move...I like the aggression.

[Unarmed]

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That's being said, I'd probably push on the flop.

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Interesting move...I like the aggression.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its interesting until you realize that Phil would push a gutshot there. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[rickr]

I wouldn't call this an open end straight draw. You have a double gut draw, where a 5 would make you the nut, but not the 9. Don't think you can count all your outs here. With the turn your done.
In my opinion, you would be better off raising at this level. You add FE to the number of times you hit. Even a miniraise (which I normally hate) will normally put you in charge of the hand. Better chance it will be checked to you on the flop. Standard continuation bet makes even top pair weak kicker lay down if there still playing weak tight. Just a few more ways to win the hand.

Later,
Rick

[Phil Van Sexton]

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That's being said, I'd probably push on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting move...I like the aggression.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its interesting until you realize that Phil would push a gutshot there. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Only against someone like Scuba who would lay down middle set.

Seriously, depending on my read, I would push. I would never call. The villian just doesn't have enough chips to make drawing worthwhile.

[adanthar]

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I wouldn't call this an open end straight draw. You have a double gut draw, where a 5 would make you the nut, but not the 9. Don't think you can count all your outs here. With the turn your done.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling the Weak Tight Police...calling the Weak Tight Police...

Do you think the QJ fairy's in this pot waiting to bust hero for calling with *gasp* the potentially wrong straight on this board, or do you think that the 4 pairing means that if a 5 or 9 were to come on the river Hero has any significant chance of losing to a full house? Both? Can I interest you in this rock that keeps tigers away?

edit: I fold PF because if I see this kind of flop I have to checkraise it and that's potentially a bad thing for my stack.

[rickr]

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[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't call this an open end straight draw. You have a double gut draw, where a 5 would make you the nut, but not the 9. Don't think you can count all your outs here. With the turn your done.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling the Weak Tight Police...calling the Weak Tight Police...

Do you think the QJ fairy's in this pot waiting to bust hero for calling with *gasp* the potentially wrong straight on this board, or do you think that the 4 pairing means that if a 5 or 9 were to come on the river Hero has any significant chance of losing to a full house? Both? Can I interest you in this rock that keeps tigers away?

edit: I fold PF because if I see this kind of flop I have to checkraise it and that's potentially a bad thing for my stack.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was simply pointing out that it's differant than an open ended, and might want to consider them differant. Nothing more. As for when the 4 fell, the hand ends there. Someone's stack should be in the middle before the river. No way am I simply calling a bet on that turn. If you are simply chasing the double gutshot straight on a paired board while calling a 3/4 pot bet on the flop and a "decent" size bet on the turn, you are making a mistake. Weak tight my ass. You flat called this guys bet on the flop. He's shown weakness with the bet on the turn. Depending on my read, I'm probably pushing here. He has to have a real hand to call. And if he does, I do have outs.

Calling all the way to the river on a double gutshot straight draw on a paired board is simply wrong. If you are simply going to chase with position with this hand, fold preflop, and wait for a place to push.

Later,
Rick