AQ I think I'm ahead here but I'm a wuss

[sng-sam]

20+2 No reads. My thinking was even if I have a bigger ace if he has a 2 diamonds I'm only a small favorite. I guess this is why you don't play AQ out of position ( when will I learn).


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t785)
BB (t740)
UTG (t625)
UTG+1 (t1220)
UTG+2 (t775)
MP1 (t1100)
MP2 (t380)
MP3 (t980)
CO (t775)
Button (t620)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls t15, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t90) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t90</font>, BB folds, UTG calls t90, UTG+1 calls t90, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t365 (All-In)</font>, CO folds, Hero folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t275.

Turn: (t1000) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t1000) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t1000

[jcm4ccc]

I think MP2 could have almost anything, given that he is the small stack. I've seen desperation bets like this all the time. What you want to do, I think, is keep UTG+1 out of the pot. When the betting gets back to you on the flop, I would go all-in.

[lehighguy]

Raise preflop!

I limp in EP because I haven't seen any action yet. There are too many limpers. It's hard to play this hand postflop (as you can see). Make a fairly large raise from the SB here.

You have to fold on the flop only because of the other people left to act behind you. Otherwise you would call. If you raise preflop there probably wouldn't be people to act behind you.

[zambonidrivr]

since you didn't raise preflop, they could really have any 2. my guess is that you are behind here. the reraise could be from somone wtih 2 pair, or a x, who thinks they have a better kicker. either way, i almost have to lay this down due to the misplayed preflop

[sng-sam]

Villan had A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[lehighguy]

Like I said, if you played the hand right you'd have more chips.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
I think MP2 could have almost anything, given that he is the small stack. I've seen desperation bets like this all the time. What you want to do, I think, is keep UTG+1 out of the pot. When the betting gets back to you on the flop, I would go all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop!

I limp in EP because I haven't seen any action yet. There are too many limpers. It's hard to play this hand postflop (as you can see). Make a fairly large raise from the SB here.

You have to fold on the flop only because of the other people left to act behind you. Otherwise you would call. If you raise preflop there probably wouldn't be people to act behind you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising with AQ out of position seems very reckless to me.

How much would you raise?

[ripped]

[ QUOTE ]
Like I said, if you played the hand right you'd have more chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

raising with AQo out of position is a mistake. He played the hand fine IMO. I would have probably called the all in in the 20's.

[Mammux]

I'd raise to 100 preflop, expecting to take it down there. If the shortstack then went all-in preflop I would call him, expecting to see a low/medium pair that he was planning to play for set value.

If you think it's bad to raise with AQo in bad position preflop, aren't you saying that you prefer playing AQo out of position in a small pot with many players?

-Magnus

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
If you think it's bad to raise with AQo in bad position preflop, aren't you saying that you prefer playing AQo out of position in a small pot with many players?

[/ QUOTE ]

From the blinds, yes.

[lehighguy]

Minimum 6xBB. I would be happy taking the pot right here. The less callers the better. Plan to bet 1/2 pot if I hit the flop. If I get flop caller start to get real tight.

The action indicates to me that no one has me dominated. If they are simply trying to limp raise this will give me the information I need. I'm interested in getting rid of these limpers and isolating that AJ maniac.

I limp in EP only bcause I haven't seen action yet.

[lehighguy]

I disagree. I think you have the best hand. And if you don't the raise will let you know you don't.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. I think you have the best hand. And if you don't the raise will let you know you don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

With this many callers, you are going to have to make a huge raise (like 150) to really thin the field. Even if you do, you are still going to be called by 1 or 2 morans. Now you are playing in a huge pot out of position.

If you raise like 6xBB (ie 90), you are very likely to be called in multiple spots. Again, you are playing a huge pot out of position.

To make this profitable, you must be a big continuation bet when the flop misses you (as it usually will). By now, you've invested 30-40% of your stack, and you only have Ace-high.

If called on the flop, you have little choice but to check and pray on the turn and river, and watch some clown take down a monster pot.

Obvious I would raise if I knew I would flop an Ace, but in general, building a big pot out-of-position without a premium hand is mistake.

Apparently I'm alone in this opinion amoung the morning crew.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently I'm alone in this opinion amoung the morning crew.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you're not.
Raising this is bad.
Let's also not overlook:

UTG calls t15

[adanthar]

I don't mind not raising this but since you didn't, stop trying to find the monster under the bed and call this. In fact, if every 2+2'er called every questionable flop hand they wound up posting, you'd come out way ahead.

[syka16]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. I think you have the best hand. And if you don't the raise will let you know you don't.

[/ QUOTE ]



To make this profitable, you must be a big continuation bet when the flop misses you (as it usually will). By now, you've invested 30-40% of your stack, and you only have Ace-high.



[/ QUOTE ]

If you assume that you're getting called in multiple spots, then I don't think a continuation bet is all that profitable. That said, if you raise 6bb and get 2 calls, you'll hit the flop just enough for it to be profitable only when you hit a A,Q non-K, assuming you hold the best hand on those flops. Of course sometimes you won't and fish will have 2pair but other times, you'll double up after the flop against someone with Ax. So I think you can raise and play it only when you hit but IMO it's probably not all that better than just checking in the SB.

[chopchoi]

I like the limp here. Suppose you raise, get called by one opponent holding 66. The flop is ten high, and you make a continuation bet of half the pot. Your opponent figures it is probably a continuation bet, and comes over the top. You have to let the hand go, but you're crippled. I wouldn't raise here with AK either.

Now, if the blinds were 15/30,I would strongly consider pushing here. At 25/50, I push every time.

I don't like the fold at all. You say you have no reads, but I do, and I wasn't even at the table. The short stack probably sucks. It is very hard to lose 2/3 of tour stack at level 1. Maybe he had a really good hand that got cracked, but if his hand was that good, he should've found gotten all his chips in the pot. Very rarely will you find a decent player so short so early.

So, what hands do you fear? AK is highly unlikely as there was no pf raise. So you are basically worried about AT, Ax making 2 pair, or a set. Either of your callers would have re-raised with 2 pair, so you should put them on weak aces or draws (one may be slow-playing aa set, but you have to take that risk). And the short stack would probably limp with any ace, and push when it hit. I think you're well ahead, and need to push to isolate yourself against the player all-in.

By the way, I notice you said he had AJ. How do you know? Did he flash his cards after everyone folded, or did someone call his push? If there was a caller, what did he have?

[Newt_Buggs]

pf I usually mix it up and will either complete or raise. If I do raise I am not trying to "thin the field" but getting more chips into the pot with what is probably the best hand and making it more likely that if I hit the flop it is good. I almost never make a continuation bet if I miss.