Potentially huge pot in a live NL game.

[flytrap]

Great NL game at Greektown in Detroit. Blinds are 2-2-5, with 2 on the button. I have about $1550 to start the hand.
I'm dealt J /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif in the CO. A bunch of calls to me, I make it $55 to go. A lady to my left calls cold, meaning she either has a decent pair or an ak type hand. She has about $500. UTG who is very loose, but doesn't limp re-raise from what I've seen, makes it $155 to go. He has over $3000 in chips. Right now I have him pegged for AA, and maybe KK. I call, planning to play for a set. The flop is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and the LAG bets $300. Do I move in on the flop, or let him bet again on the turn?

[Rotating Rabbit]

Reluctantly call and try to make him think you have QQ to his KK+ or KK to his AA. Then pot will be 900 on the turn and you can get the last 900 off him at your leisure, he wont be able to fold. His only chance to escape is if you raise the flop so dont.

[flawless_victory]

if he has AA (probably), youre prob gonna double up no matter what. i think you should just move in, bc he will likely put you on KK/QQ and instantly call... maybe youll make quads on the turn and it will be really bad for your action... who knows?

[Rotating Rabbit]

If you had QQ, would you really move all in (an overbet) against a limp-reraiser who'se just bet the pot into you on a meaningless board? I dont think so. You'd be trying to keep the pot small.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
If you had QQ, would you really move all in (an overbet) against a limp-reraiser who'se just bet the pot into you on a meaningless board? I dont think so. You'd be trying to keep the pot small.

[/ QUOTE ]no,id fold. because this guy most likely sucks, i think he has AA and will call. if he mucked this hand id feel sick... against alot of players, calling is clearly better. playing a small pot with QQ cannot possibly happen. look at pot size/ stack sizes... its all or nothing.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
Great NL game at Greektown in Detroit. Blinds are 2-2-5, with 2 on the button. I have about $1550 to start the hand.
I'm dealt J /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif in the CO. A bunch of calls to me, I make it $55 to go. A lady to my left calls cold, meaning she either has a decent pair or an ak type hand. She has about $500. UTG who is very loose, but doesn't limp re-raise from what I've seen, makes it $155 to go. He has over $3000 in chips. Right now I have him pegged for AA, and maybe KK. I call, planning to play for a set. The flop is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and the LAG bets $300. Do I move in on the flop, or let him bet again on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's put it this way:

how could smooth calling be wrong?

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Great NL game at Greektown in Detroit. Blinds are 2-2-5, with 2 on the button. I have about $1550 to start the hand.
I'm dealt J /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif in the CO. A bunch of calls to me, I make it $55 to go. A lady to my left calls cold, meaning she either has a decent pair or an ak type hand. She has about $500. UTG who is very loose, but doesn't limp re-raise from what I've seen, makes it $155 to go. He has over $3000 in chips. Right now I have him pegged for AA, and maybe KK. I call, planning to play for a set. The flop is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and the LAG bets $300. Do I move in on the flop, or let him bet again on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

i call pretty quickly. dont try to overact this one. just call quick and he'll think QQ or KK. the money is probably going in either way though.

[NegranuFan]

There is a general concensus that the guy has AA/KK and wont let it go easily.
I don't like just calling here regardless. Lets say the guy wakes up out of his sleep and tries to figure out what you have. Villan will be hard pressed to put you on a 9, so with his AA, he feels confident.
Regardless, there are only 3 calling hands: JJ, 99, Q10. He can safely rule out Q10 unless he thinks you are a nutball, so really you can ONLY be slowplaying. He has defined his hand so if probably thinks that QQ, TT, AK etc will fold the flop, and maybe get raised by KK. He would go over teh top and you take it down.
But then again, who here isn't willing to pay off JJ here anyway? Assuming that Villan has AA in this position, put yourself in his shoes. Are you afraid more of a call or a reraise? If he just calls, and you smell a rat and check, who can honestly say they would fold to a moderate to large bet in that situation the vast majority of the time?
But then it gets into the stack size point that others are making sooooo...
what I would like to know is how people would play it if hero had $5000 and villian had $10000.
OR how would you play it early in a big multi-table tournament? A little more creative possibilities here...


(anyone else find teh raise to $155 a little small, as it might get 2 callers[the tight lady is in too], instead of just the heads up that he might be looking for? A situation like that I think I would come out of the woodwork in a big way and maybe bet 300-500. Make it look like a steal and commit bettor and caller to go all in b4 flop or fold and I wil $110. In addition, he is giving hero enough implied odds to call for a set)

[RYL]

I would call on the flop and intend to bet or raise on the turn. What I would do is make the pot big enough for the villian to be committed to this hand.

[ggbman]

I would call here, the money is probably going in regardless though.

[piki]

1. Does the lady call his raise?

2. Are there any cards or bets that could cause you to fold this hand on the turn or the river?

The answer to #2 will define how you play this hand. If you do have scare cards, push all in now and take the hand. If you are somewhat scared of what could come, come over top of his raise. If you arent scared of any cards, just call.

[AZK]

I call, position is a wonderful thing against this guy. Who was the lag? Was the lady the blonde chick with a silver/gold cross, who would have looked cute in her younger days? She is awful, I tried giving her a lesson about not raising KTo UTG. It didn't really work out. Anyway, let me know who the LAG was.

[freemoney]

exactly i dont see how there is anything else, maybe he got tricky with AK or 2-3 i dont care in that case let him hit his A or K or let him bluff his stack it doesnt matter, hes not folding AA here and calling here isnt gonna change anything.

[arod15]

Cold Call trap him your an 11-1 favorite at that point. Take your chances if an A or K hit you toss yoru hand but the maximize your value cold call induce a bet. Hesitate do whatever it takes to induce it. But moving all in mighjt cause the loose palyer to fold. Loose players hate getting put on a decision liek that he still might call but i suspect if you cold call he will move in on the turn also im not sure what the lady did but if you move all in you wil shut her out of the pot. JUst hestiatnyl call. Trying to get more action.

[flytrap]

Yep, that's the lady. The LAG was someone I didn't know, but he seemed like a nutjob.

[flytrap]

A few people have mentioned this, but one of the things I was thinking was that slowplaying may look like a big hand, whereas raising on the flop looks like a weaker hand, as he would expect me to slowplay a set. I often play a set this way for this reason.
There is also a slight reason a bad card will hit the turn, like a J, or an A against a KK.
Thoughts?

[AZK]

I agree with your thinking, sometimes I play the nuts fast on a flop because people think, why would he play the nuts so fast, obviously he has a weak hand. The thing is, most of the lags at greektown don't think like this, they think, I have AA this doesn't matter. I agree you lose action from him if he has KK/QQ and an A/K flop etc...but most lags there don't slow down. When you call, the pot is huge and he will feel committed. Besides you lose money if your read is wrong and he has AKs on this flop, then he probably lays down and doesn't call your raise.

Edit: I might head down tonight, you gonna be there?

[LuvDemNutz]

Minraise anyone?

[AZK]

ugh, no way, what is a minraise on this board? QT? no way. Most players will read you for a 9, which would bring an overpair to a screeching halt. A minraise is gross on this board. It would be like putting a sign on your head.

[piki]

Not a fan, I would prefer to make him lay it down with a big bet. Dare not show him the cards unless I want to build a tight image. I want him to know I made him fold his aces. Then ill direct him to the tilt-a-whirl ...

[flytrap]

I probably won't make it tonight. I'll be there tommorow most likely.

[flytrap]

I move all in, he instantly calls with AA, jack hits the turn giving me quads. The Jack on the turn got me thinking about this. I'm not sure I stack him if I wait, although it's very rare for me to get such a scary card on the turn.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
I move all in, he instantly calls with AA, jack hits the turn giving me quads. The Jack on the turn got me thinking about this. I'm not sure I stack him if I wait, although it's very rare for me to get such a scary card on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think he's more likely to have AA-KK or to have no pair? If he has no pair, you call to let him bluff again.

If there's no chance he has no pair, then the allin is just as good as the smooth call.

[flytrap]

Well, I think he most likely has a big pair, because that's what you see so often with the limp-reraise, especially after I put in a raise of 10xBB and got a call.

[neon]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with your thinking, sometimes I play the nuts fast on a flop because people think, why would he play the nuts so fast, obviously he has a weak hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there's so much to be said for fast playing the nuts. I just played a hand where I was BB w/ 64s. Folded to SB, who completed. Flop was 666. SB led for pot, I raised pot (I was playing laggy, per usual), SB called. Turn 10, check, pot, call. River 2, check, all-in, call w/ AK. (granted, villain was bad, but I don't get paid w/ a different line).

In this hand, I think I would have called the flop, simply b/c as someone already mentioned, there aren't many scare cards (one jack, maybe four aces if he has KK/QQ). I think all the money was going in anyway, and I certainly don't mind your push at all, esp. if there's absolutely zero chance villain folds AA.

Creed does make a good point though, in that if he has AK, you're only going to extract more coin by calling, and letting him bluff or catch top pair.

[freemoney]

i mean to clarify i clearly made this point first.