A turned 2 pair laydown

[adanthar]

In the spirit of today's forum posts, here's a fun hand:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t985)
BB (t1000)
UTG (t985)
UTG+1 (t1000)
UTG+2 (t920)
MP1 (t1000)
MP2 (t1000)
Hero (t1000)
CO (t1000)
Button (t1110)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls t15, MP1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

(Note: folding PF in LMP after three random limpers is bad, k?)

Flop: (t87.50) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 <font color="red">thinks a while and </font> checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t87.50) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB folds, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets t15</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t60</font>, Hero calls t60, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t125</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls t65, Hero folds.

I thought it was close the first time and not at all close the second. Comments?

[lastchance]

How in the world does Hero make this laydown, and just call the turn?! Then again, this is probably a $215, where you might have a damned good read.

If you were a lesser player, I would this call this horrible, and absolutely horrible in a heartbeat.

[adanthar]

It's a 109 and I have no reads.

[lastchance]

How do you do this?! I'm thinking I have two pair, and it's highly likely they both have aces or something... I just think there's just too many ways you're ahead...

[ekky]

The action stinks of strength somewhere out there.

Min bet from UTG.. small raise from MP1.. Hero calls.. UTG (despite this action after him) is happy to re-raise a small amount.. and it gets smooth called from MP1?

Its hard to see 2 hands here that are both behind QK...

maybe a flush draw and a rag ace?? the betting would not indicate this to bet true... QJ vs flush draw? again... seemingly not the case.

I think if you were going to be at your most imaginative...UTG2 bets with AK (why the min bet tho)... MP1 raises with flush draw.. UTG2 raises again small with AK (again.. why so small) and flush draw calls...

None of these seem likely..so its really hard to see what they both could have that QK beats.

I think by the way the action has gone, it was a good fold.

(even in the worst case that you might have been ahead, you have good info about their playing styles for future SNG's)

[BDarch]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you do this?! I'm thinking I have two pair, and it's highly likely they both have aces or something... I just think there's just too many ways you're ahead...

[/ QUOTE ]

You think that UTG check raised with something weaker than what you are holding? After someone bet, someone else rasied and another played flat called that check raise shows huge strength. I think this is a good laydown and probably something that I wouldn't do and end up breaking myself.

[EverettKings]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you do this?! I'm thinking I have two pair, and it's highly likely they both have aces or something... I just think there's just too many ways you're ahead...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there are too many ways that you're behind. UTG is undoubtedly betting the river, are you really going to look him up after all the strength he showed? With no reads, you have to save your chips and avoid paying one of these guys off. MP1 could be sitting on KK or something, but more than likely UTG flopped a baby set or turned AQ top two. It's just going to cost to much to see the showdown here, and I can't think of many hands that are going to pay you off.

So I like the muck when you did, and prefer it to mucking to the first turn raise. I'm not giving up that hand on the first raise with no reads, I'll make somebody show some more strength. And that UTG minraise says "please call 200 more chips in wussy bets with my 88 because you cant fold top pair." That's my $.02

-Kings

[kyro]

looks good to me. i don't think you're ahead here very often.

[durron597]

UTG has AAA. Good fold.

How far off am I?

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG has AAA. Good fold.

How far off am I?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have guessed JT for UTG...

[microbet]

I really like the way BB played this hand.

[durron597]

Well, this is the thought process.

"Ok I'm in a LAGgro $109 and I have AA UTG. Ok I'll limp reraise."
"Damn! No one raised. Ok the flop... woo top set &amp; rainbow. I can afford to slowplay, check!"
"Turn. Ok time to bet something, lets see if I can get someone to try to bluff me out of this pot by minbetting. Yay a raise to 60, and a caller! Let's minraise, get some more chips in the pot."

I didn't see the river action, but I think he had AA. My range of hands for him is AA, JT, 88, KK in that order of likelihood.

[lastchance]

I misread the hand at first. I thought UTG bet out initially on the turn, not UTG+2...

If I'm hero, I raise turn, no way I'm going to put them on something that beats two pair right now.

But doing what you did, and UTG minraising over the top is just insane. I don't know what UTG's got, but I think only JT is a hand that should check turn that beat you...

But JT preflop? Meh...

At a $10+1, I shove my chips in, but I guess at this level you have to give people some credit.

[adanthar]

The river was an ace, UTG immediately checked his pretty obvious JT, called the 2/3 pot bet from MP and lost to the 88 full house. Seems he had a similar read. (One of the reasons I folded was that I wasn't sure if I even had four outs.)

I'm also kinda unhappy no one called me out on limping PF so I could also post that if I was on the button after that many limpers, I'd see 75s as pretty decent /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[jon_1van]

Some one probably does have an Ace. But you won't make anything off an opponent with just a loan Pair of Aces. The flop can hit too many people, too many ways for a single pair of Aces to go overboard.

Best case scenario is you pick up the pot right here with a decent raise

Worst case scenario is you raise to pick up the pot and find out you are crushed. And given the board and the number of opponents. You'll be crushed frequently

[Scuba Chuck]

Adanthar, on the turn, if you had AQ you would have called right?

[adanthar]

Nah, I'd still fold. I'm up against the clear nuts and MP could be taking away some of my outs, but I don't know which.

AK would be close and I'd probably hope he had 88 and call.

[Scuba Chuck]

Adanthar, when is a smooth call, not a smooth call? When does someone decide they'd like to see a cheap showdown?

I think I would fold this turn action (mainly because even I'm not fool enough to not notice how coordinated it's becoming), but it got me thinking about seeing cheap showdowns. Do you employ this practice?

[adanthar]

Very rarely because I'm rarely in this type of spot (something like 2 pair, no prior betting, the card makes everyone's hand and not just mine.)

I do call or check/call a TON of hands but other than the occasional draw they are usually TPGK or better and I'm really just trapping. Most of the time, if I wanted to see a cheap showdown I'd have bet or raised the flop/turn and then checked the river.