Love-life update

[MicroBob]

Still long - but edited for length.

Hi all -
Starting a new thread.
Once again apologies for the length.
Brevity is not my strong suit.


I wrote a hell of a lot yesterday because I needed to vent and was pretty upset.
Here's the cliff's notes version to get you updated.


GF and I have both been dating for 2 years.
we were both seperated from our previous marriages for a few months before dating.
I recent finalized my divorce...delay was due to lazyness.
She has not finalized her divorce. She kicked the guy out almost 3 years ago but he still kind of assumes they are still together even though she rarely speaks to him.


He was behaving kind of badly at times but nothing too bad. Just a few phone calls where he wouldn't leave a message.
He has gotten out of hand of recent...specifically this weekend.

He went to her house and showed her pics he had of us together a month or so ago (different dates).

We suspect he has also been snooping around her house with a key that she forgot he had. going through her e-mail on her computer, cell-phone bills, etc.

He called me last night (first time I've ever spoken with him) and, among other things, claimed to be still sleeping with her.
I didn't believe him but was admittedly rattled.

She and I talked on the phone last night but I still didn't feel as great about things as i would have liked.


------------------------------------------------


Here's the update:


First - thanks everyone for their insights and support.
We had a wide-range of views here which would actually was kind of interesting

------------------------------------------

She came over today and we talked. Neither one of us had much success sleeping.

Divorce - She is contacting a couple lawyers tomorrow. He said he was ready to do the divorce.
I did not have to put any demands on her.
if he doesn't sign the papers she will do whatever is necessary.


Sleeping around - There's no real way I can prove one way or another. I still believe her.
His tone to me originally was along the lines of, "Well...you're dating MY wife. I just want to know how you would feel."
When I didn't really reply then he seemed to take the next step and try to MAKE me feel the same type of pain that he is going through

She is very concerned that he upset me this badly and that I am now more directly involved in this.


I believe her that she hasn't been sleeping around.
I also believe that our relationship is strong.
We talked about it and I am satisfied as best I think one can be.


She's very accepting of my paranoid concerns. She understood.


Action -

Her tendency to shut it all out has ceased.
She says that she is going to confront him and tell him to stop.

Anyway, she says that she is going to directly tell him NO more phone-calls, NO more contact, divorce will be done entirely through lawyers, etc.
She will tell him that if he contacts her again she will go to the police.

She is showing strength about this that I haven't seen before. I think she has done a lot of growing since when our relationship first started and she just wanted to close her eyes about him and make it all go away.


(obviously if she doesn't do any of these things then it will be hit-the-highway time)


If he calls me again I will tell him that if he continues to harass me I will go to the police.


Keys and Alarms - When he left in a huff he forgot that he left his copy of the key at her place.
She suspects that he probably doesn't have another.
she believes that changing the alarm-code and notifying the alarm-company that this specific guy is not allowed in her house will be sufficient.

She's also changing her e-mail password, etc.

Emotional status - I feel that our relationship is stronger than ever. Our day together talking this through was VERY productive and helpful to both of us.

We were completely providing strength for each other.
It was far beyond any expectations I would have had.

She is getting started on the divorce this week. The 3 weeks that I'm in Vegas (June 26-July 15) will be a good stretch for her to try to finish it off perhaps (if it it goes quickly enough).


I feel good about things.


Thanks again all.

[pshreck]

Now put a cliffnotes for that post and you'll be all set. I actually read everything from yesterday, but I cant keep doing this. Please shorten.

[[censored]]

Bob,

You sound very understanding and compassionate which I applaud. my only question for you is, in your mind where is the line or what are the boundries in terms of her truly taking action in severing the ties with her ex? Have you thought about this and are you able to make sure that you are not the one getting taking advantage of due to your understanding and caring nature?

[Cornell Fiji]

MicroBob,
I will transfer you the money if you need it to pay the locksmith BUT CHANGE THE [censored] LOCKS ON HER HOUSE TOMORROW.

Good luck with this situation, it will be tough and all of the advice from people in similar situations from the other thread said hit the highway, they also all said that they know you wont bolt. I'm hoping that you are right...

[MicroBob]

yup.
agreed.

she came over
we talked.
things are better.

she is getting the divorce. contacts lawyers tomorrow.
she is telling him no more contact or we go to the police.

I will tell him the same thing if he contacts me again.

I am satisfied as much as I can be that she wasn't sleeping around.


I believe we are strong.

[MicroBob]

First - I don't think that will happen ("but that's what they all say" Bernie would say)

Second - If she doesn't contact the lawyers TOMORROW as promised she will have some explaining to do. She said she was going to do it tomorrow so I expect that to happen.


If she doesn't confront him about not contacting her anymore within the next couple of days I will tell her we need to do this right-away.

But I believe she is ready to put her foot down and tell him that she will go to the police if he contacts her again.


If she just lets him call and call without leaving messages like before then I'll tell her that is not acceptable.

[pshreck]

Hmm.

Does this change your perspective (the one you had before you started dating) on how smart it is to get involved with a women who is not divorced, but just seperated?

Were you fine with this because you had just recently been seperated, and assumed a divorce would quickly follow with your new girlfriend?

After reading your story, you seem like a completely reasonable person, I just can't help but feeling that it is weird for people to develop deep relationships without at least insisting that the married person you are with have some more official ending to their marriage. This is leaving the moral issues aside, but just from a 'this doesnt sound too smart' perspective.

Note that I am not judging, nor do I claim to know much about this. I am just pondering and this was one of the responses I had to your story.

[bump]

[ QUOTE ]
MicroBob,
I will transfer you the money if you need it to pay the locksmith BUT CHANGE THE [censored] LOCKS ON HER HOUSE TOMORROW.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not getting a transfer from me but Fiji is right. I said this in the other thread, this guy is a manic stalker. The fact that neither you nor your gf changed the locks today is evidence that neither of you are thinking clearly.

[thatpfunk]

[ QUOTE ]


Keys and Alarms - When he left in a huff he forgot that he left his copy of the key at her place.
She suspects that he probably doesn't have another.
she believes that changing the alarm-code and notifying the alarm-company that this specific guy is not allowed in her house will be sufficient.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not good enough Bob. Change the locks, eliminate all excuses and have some piece of my mind. It is also a safety issue- you never know with people...

[MicroBob]

It doesn't really change my perspective.

She has a psycho-husband/ex-husband (whatever).

This guy could likely continue to be a psycho AFTER they get the divorce.


Up until this weekend it was really nothing more than:
- him calling her and not leaving messages
- once every 2 or 3 months calling her and telling her he still loves her and they should work it out
- one drunken episode where he showed up at her doorstep and she thought that would be the only time.

It was mostly a non-issue.

Then this weekend everything changed.

Also - I pointed out that he really IS potentially dangerous.

I showed her that after the first time he banged on her door she said she didn't think he would do it again because they had some finality. but he did it again.
After he came over to her place I said, "Do you think he'll confront me?" (since he now had pics of me) and she didn't think so. Obviously she was wrong there too.

In the past weekend there were a couple of lines that she said he wouldn't cross...that he crossed.

She sees that her judgement on what he's capable of has not been correct.
he could cross other lines that she would have previously thought uncrossable...such as breaking a car-window or violence or whatever.

[BOTW]

Sounds like a good plan.

However, I would caution you against threatening to get the police involved, just a short conversation saying "No more contact." Then refuse to communicate at all execept through lawyers or the police if necessary. He might call/come by thinking you are bluffing about the police and you'd rather avoid that route if you can. Plus, you don't want him to have any idea of the levels/types of retalliations you will use if necessary.

[MicroBob]

I just talked to her on the phone and convinced her that getting the locks changed will make me feel better even though she already has had the alarm changed.

So she is calling the locks guy tomorrow.


I do doubt that he has another key...but admit that we don't know what the hell he's capable of and IF he has another key that would be a problem.


She has said that she is going to get the divorce started tomorrow.
I was agreeable with this before.

Tonight I was more forceful.
I just told her that I really need to see her push this forward as fast as she canny-can-can. Explained that if she dilly-dallies after having let it sit around for 2+ years that will just leave me wondering why she's not finishing it even now (especially after our weekend events).


She sees that pushing the divorce as fast as possible is something that I need to see.


I apologized for being so bossy about things but that these are things that are really bothering me.
She says that maybe she needs to be pushed a little bit to do this and that I'm not pushing her too much.


She didn't tell her Mom that he is getting all weird because the mom would worry (totally freak actually).
But she did tell her on the phone today that she was sick of his crap and the phone-calls and she's doing the divorce tomorrow and her mom reacted, "Yup. It's about damn time." (in spanish of course).

Her parents like me btw and know that we are very serious.


I'm taking more charge than I was before and she's very receptive to it.


All is well and I believe I have you guys on this forum to thank for the generally more forceful approach that I've taken in a couple of these matters (such as...'divorce' isn't good enough...I need to see it get done quickly).

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this change your perspective (the one you had before you started dating) on how smart it is to get involved with a women who is not divorced, but just seperated?

[/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ]
It doesn't really change my perspective

[/ QUOTE ]

It should. You'd get involved in another situation like this knowing beforehand the possibilities? You wouldn't handle this differently at a much earlier time in the relationship?

It's almost unanimous with anyone I've talked to or read about who's been through this stuff and learned to look at it from the outside. If they've split with the person, given time, they will say they would never want to get in that situation again and never should've gotten in it given the factors.

[ QUOTE ]
Also - I pointed out that he really IS potentially dangerous.

I showed her that after the first time he banged on her door she said she didn't think he would do it again because they had some finality. but he did it again.
After he came over to her place I said, "Do you think he'll confront me?" (since he now had pics of me) and she didn't think so. Obviously she was wrong there too.

In the past weekend there were a couple of lines that she said he wouldn't cross...that he crossed.

She sees that her judgement on what he's capable of has not been correct.
he could cross other lines that she would have previously thought uncrossable...such as breaking a car-window or violence or whatever

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly, you somewhat downplayed this in the other thread. Here's the deal. These situations are volatile. Lovers triangle/domestic violence calls are the calls the police dread the most. People lose their lives over this stuff. It happens too often.

For those in the other thread who acted like this was a playground bullying and you should stand up and all that, this isn't Jr high or high school where a guy is in the lunchroom pushing you around. This is serious sh*t and should be considered such. You don't screw around in this situation. School's out. There's no playground gaurd to help you should you get really caught up. This isn't about ego or proving who is more 'manly'. Those are thoughts that can get you killed in this. Literally.

For the person who mentioned brainwashing...I understand the gravity of this situation extremely well. This is not a situation where you just flippantly toss out an answer and ho-hum about it. If any of my '20' posts you saw filtered in, it was worth the effort to make him think more deeply about this situation. You're right, I can't force anything. Don't want to. That's for him to decide. But I'll be more than happy to counter-act the other crap advice that some gave in that thread. This is serious sh*t.


[ QUOTE ]
Action -

Her tendency to shut it all out has ceased.
She says that she is going to confront him and tell him to stop.

Anyway, she says that she is going to directly tell him NO more phone-calls, NO more contact, divorce will be done entirely through lawyers, etc.
She will tell him that if he contacts her again she will go to the police.

She is showing strength about this that I haven't seen before. I think she has done a lot of growing since when our relationship first started and she just wanted to close her eyes about him and make it all go away.


(obviously if she doesn't do any of these things then it will be hit-the-highway time)

[/ QUOTE ]

I can agree with this. Whether you actually stick to it should it come to this will remain to be seen. It isn't easy and won't be if the chips are down. Nothing should suprise you as a possiblity of happening. Prepare for the worst even if it doesn't come. You know what you're getting into. There are no excuses should stuff go even more sideways. Watch your back.

I do wish you luck however this pans out.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
First - I don't think that will happen ("but that's what they all say" Bernie would say)


[/ QUOTE ]

heh heh.

They all do say that. Including me when I went through it.

b

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
You'd get involved in another situation like this knowing beforehand the possibilities?

[/ QUOTE ]


Most certainly not.

The context of the question was just regarding 'dating someone who is merely seperated and not divorced'.


When I dated her I was satisfied that their relationship was over. To date a seperated woman again I would need a similar or stronger idea that this was the case.
But that says nothing about dating someone who has a psycho-ex.


allowing a situation to drag out for so long regarding getting the divorce would be something I would not tolerate.

Again, my divorce was slow to develop because we were just lazy so it IS possible that this can happen in a more harmless way.
My ex was dating at some point I suspect and obviously she didn't have to deal with a stalker 'husband/ex-husband' tailing her.


but the GF just let it drag out and out.
If I was in a semi-similar situation again I would not allow this to happen for very long.
She's either going to confront him and deal with things and get things in motion regarding the divorce and she will know that otherwise I just can't stick around.


This is not the same as saying, "dating a seperated woman is the worst idea ever."

[ QUOTE ]

Interestingly, you somewhat downplayed this in the other thread. Here's the deal. These situations are volatile.

[/ QUOTE ]


I did downplay it more. I agree.

I still don't think he's the violent type.
He has never hit or even swung at her even in all their fights when they were together.
He also did not threaten me over the phone at all.
He just had a threatening tone.


At her place he pretty much backed-down to her when she told him to leave...and also backed-down to her little brother.


He's pretty wacky...but things actually COULD be worse.
(Bernie has seen what WORSE consists of).


But the more I considered things the more I realized that he has crossed lines that we never in a million years would have thought were cross-able by him.


Stalking us and having these pics of us (we still don't know if HE was following us or hired a PI).

And also him actually calling me.

I have convinced both her and me that we it is very possible that he will continue to cross previously uncrossable lines.


At any time within the next 2-3 months especially he could be really drunk one night and just go nuts.

When he actually gets served with the papers could be such a trigger I suspect.


She doesn't think he has another key.
Well...we also didn't think the guy was going to stalk us and take a bunch of pics either.


I'm not completely concerned because a lot of these situations are just threats and don't really go anywhere.

Not every ex who has psycho episodes of this guy's nature escalate it to a point of violence.


But he HAS been escalating things which we have only recently learned really.
He HAS been following us with a camera which is REALLY creppy.


So we're operating under the assumption that we just don't know a damn thing about him anymore.


I think we're taking the right approach.



[ QUOTE ]

I do wish you luck however this pans out.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks Bernie. I appreciate it.

[jdl22]

What's the downside to chaning the locks? Isn't it only like a big bet at the stakes you're playing? Even if just changing the alarm is sufficient what's the harm? If it isn't sufficient it would definately be good.

So to summarize:
- low cost if unnecesary
- super high benefit if necesary

Changing the damn locks is practically a free roll.

[jakethebake]

I'm waiting for the GF to get amnesia and then her evil twin to tkae her place.

Also, I don't like this Bob character. I'd write him off the show.

[theredpill5]

Ever thought that maybe he didn't just show up after 2 years ? Maybe he had been around her the entire 2 years you were seeing her but she kept it from you in the early stages because you and her had a new relationship. It's possible.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Ever thought that maybe he didn't just show up after 2 years ? Maybe he had been around her the entire 2 years you were seeing her but she kept it from you in the early stages because you and her had a new relationship. It's possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to clarify that although the above post was a response to me, I had no relationship with Bob's girlfriend. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MoreWineII]

Good luck Bob, hope everything works out.

[IndieMatty]

Best of luck. Get this all worked out before you win the big one.

[ddollevoet]

[ QUOTE ]
She is showing strength about this that I haven't seen before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like she loves you and is doing whatever it takes to stop anything from coming between the two of you. Good for you. I hope it works out.