Is A9o Playable here

[waynethetrain]

I never play A9o unless I'm in a steal position or in the SB if there's a few players in. SSH does not recommend it. Neither does ITH. WLLH does with this many players, but in general it's a loser. Any thoughts?

Was it playable here from the Button with this many callers.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP3 folds, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 caps</font>, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, SB calls, UTG calls.

River: (12 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB caps</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 24 BB

[David04]

Yes. I may even raise this(is that bad?)


Also, don't be so results-oriented. I would be willing to bet that you wouldn't post this hand if the board had been five blanks.

[2+2 wannabe]

NO - A9os sucks with 3 people already in

if you are going to play this junk (which is bad), i'm guessing you have to raise it up to get the blinds and poster out, and to take control of the hand

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, don't be so results-oriented. I would be willing to bet that you wouldn't post this hand if the board had been five blanks.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good post, and 100% true. Why do I need to see the final board to make a preflop decision?

edit: wait, you would have rivered a boat! OF COURSE you should call preflop!!

edit2: holy [censored] you would have had quads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EASY CALL!!!!!!!!!

[David04]

[ QUOTE ]
edit: wait, you would have rivered a boat! OF COURSE you should call preflop!!

[/ QUOTE ]
He would have rivered quads.

[waynethetrain]

What's with the attitude man!

This is a legitimate question.

No kidding I asked the question because I would have had quads had I played it. That's what made me notice the hand, but being results oriented had nothing to do with it.

Give me a little more credit. I've probably already forgotten more about gambling in general than you will ever know in your life based on my 30 years of racetrack experience, but I am new to poker.

I checked various starting hand charts to see if anyone suggested playing A9 from the CO with mutiple players because I know that A9o is generally a marginal hand from that spot. WLLH suggested playing it did but SSH does not.

I am asking if this is one of those marginal hands that might tip into profitability against weak/loose players if played.

[David04]

Have you ever folded 72o, only to see a flop of 777? Did you run onto 2+2 and ask whether or not you should call PF with 72o? Of course not. It is fine to post this question, but you shouldn't expect to hit quads every time. Which is being results oriented.

[waynethetrain]

Anyone that has been playing poker more than a few weeks or has any experience at all with gambling knows not to be results oriented. This isn't my first week here.

The hand was the hand. It didn't need to be posted to ask the question, but that's what triggered the question just like every other question that gets asked. A hand triggers it. If I thought of it before this hand I would have asked it long ago and would now know the answer.

[VBM]

generally, w/ 2 limpers &amp; a poster, ATo is my cutoff to limp in LP, usually.

i'm interested in what other ppl will limp here w/ a suited A ...

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
What's with the attitude man!

This is a legitimate question.

No kidding I asked the question because I would have had quads had I played it. That's what made me notice the hand, but being results oriented had nothing to do with it.

Give me a little more credit. I've probably already forgotten more about gambling in general than you will ever know in your life based on my 30 years of racetrack experience, but I am new to poker.


[/ QUOTE ]
The attitude is because there was a spurt a while ago where you were complaining and whatever, and you let results influence your decisions too much. And because you spout off this horse racing nonsense every time someone thinks you should not have made a thread (I'm really proud of you!).

If you just posted preflop and asked your question, I wouldn't have posted in this thread. Sorry for the attitude, but I hate these threads - not because there couldn't be content or good discussion, but because they're plagued by posting of the results of a single hand.

[David04]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone that has been playing poker more than a few weeks or has any experience at all with gambling knows not to be results oriented. This isn't my first week here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and they also "know" not to play ATo UTG. But sometimes you slip.

[waynethetrain]

For the record, there hasn't been a time I was results oriented in any aspect of my gambling career since the late 70s (including poker).

I "was" complaining about a very serious downturn early in my poker career. To be quite honest, I didn't appreciate the reception I got here and that's why in another thread I gave due credit to droolie for being very sensitive to the fact that beginners do not have a history of success to draw on for comfort. Therefore, they should be treated differently.

I often bring up horseracing because I have the unique perspective of someone that could lose several thousand at that game and feel little or nothing because of past success. However when I experience a downturn of $100 at $1-$2 I can get quite upset because I'm not sure how much is lack of skill and how much is a bad run. There's something to be learned there and droolie obviously gets it (at least now) based on his experience with full ring vs. 6 max.

From now on, I'll try not to post hands when I have a question that can be asked and answered without one. I guess I am less senstive to the fact that some people are results oriented. I've just been gambling for so long that that's not the kind of thing that's part of my own thinking or typical gambling conversations.

You would do better to not dimiss any lessons that can be learned from people that gamble successfully at other games. Many of the attributes of success are transferable from game to game even when it ventures outside of cards. Many of the lessons I learned playing horses tranferred well to stock market investing.

All these things are about "value" and "value oriented" thinking, self control, patience, knowing what you know etc....

[aK13]

The question is fine, except you needn't post the rest of the hand. Just stop the hand at the point you have a question like this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=2461493&amp;page=0&amp;view=c ollapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1)

[Pov]

I'm not getting into any of this other stuff, but the one thing to take away from this is:

If you have a question about pre-flop play, just post the pre-flop up until your action and leave us with something like "Hero . . . ?"

This is not to avoid what happened in this thread, but to avoid tainting the analysis. If people see you limp and then something bad happens they tend to come up with a negative analysis. I think you've made the same "mistake" in a different way in your seeing monsters thread. The way you talk about the hand by saying "I wonder how much that monster cost me" makes it clear you won the hand so of course people are going to find reasons for you to raise the river. Leave that stuff off if you want useful answers.

[waynethetrain]

I hear you. Thanks for being polite in trying to improve the quality of my posts/hands.

[irishpint]

horse racing success/skill/whatever does not equal poker success. sorry. learn this game, too. this thread is stupid now because

1. you're trying to defend your post with your horse skill, which is irrelevent
2. people are getting upset/there is negatiivity when we dont need any of it on this forum
3. you know now what to do/post in the future and that's what matters.

I wouldnt play A9 here. Id play A9 and A8 with one limper in late position and then i'd raise it.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone that has been playing poker more than a few weeks or has any experience at all with gambling knows not to be results oriented. This isn't my first week here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and they also "know" not to play ATo UTG. But sometimes you slip.

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise this ATo UTG if the players are bad, especially if they are aggro.

[David04]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone that has been playing poker more than a few weeks or has any experience at all with gambling knows not to be results oriented. This isn't my first week here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and they also "know" not to play ATo UTG. But sometimes you slip.

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise this ATo UTG if the players are bad, especially if they are aggro.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your input, but that's not my point. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Isura]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone that has been playing poker more than a few weeks or has any experience at all with gambling knows not to be results oriented. This isn't my first week here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and they also "know" not to play ATo UTG. But sometimes you slip.

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise this ATo UTG if the players are bad, especially if they are aggro.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your input, but that's not my point. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I know. I just like stating random fact about my preflop play to feel like a badass. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[waynethetrain]

[ QUOTE ]
1. you're trying to defend your post with your horse skill, which is irrelevent
2. people are getting upset/there is negatiivity when we dont need any of it on this forum


[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't start the negativity but considering it's not the first time I've seen it directed at someone, maybe some people have some growing up to do and maybe someone had to say something.

Let's face it, on many other poker forums the reputation of this place in terms of attitude is not exactly as good as the reputation about the quality of poker advice.

I'm was simply saying that anyone that has had success gambling at almost anything certainly cannot be "results oriented". So that was a definite misunderstanding of the intention of the post and me. No big deal.

However, it is absolutely true that some of the lessons learned at one game are transferrable to others. That's why there are a lot of other game specialists among the elite poker pros.

People from other disciplines will definitely add to the overall learning and thinking experience.

[davelin]

I think it's playable here. If it's a mistake, it's a pretty small one.

[waynethetrain]

Thanks.

There are a number of hands included in the WLLH starting hand chart that are not included in the SSH chart. This is one of them.

Generally, I try to use the Poker Room EV stats for each position plus some common sense about the type of hand to research this stuff because I don't have a large enough database from my own playing.

I figured A9o to be very borderline.

[UncleSalty]

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I think it's playable here. If it's a mistake, it's a pretty small one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.


[ QUOTE ]
People from other disciplines will definitely add to the overall learning and thinking experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also agree with this statement.

For what it's worth, I think a lot of people are being way too hard on Wayne. Other than including results that may sway the analysis a bit, his 2 hand questions tonight are the types of legitimate situtations that I think a lot of people have questions on.

Wayne, kudos for handling some unfair treatment with so much maturity.

[atnels]

I feel that it's borderline.... If you feel confident in your post-flop play and have decent reads, I think you can limp here.

Similar to the weaker offsuit broadway hands, I think that limping with bare aces when there are already a bunch of people in the pot tends to pad the pot for other people's draws. Of course, if you hit the flop perfectly this isn't a problem, but you can run into a lot of tough situations when you catch an ace on a draw-heavy board.

[btspider]

i fold here. I'd like it more if you were on the button. I tend to have tight players on my left, who are sometimes TAGs. A raise from any of the 3 players behind you with any frequency is enough to push a marginal hand to -EV land.

[Pov]

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Wayne, kudos for handling some unfair treatment with so much maturity.

[/ QUOTE ]