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rory
05-23-2005, 04:25 PM
All of these stat posts are not really helpful. If you learn how to play well, your stats will look like a winning players just because you know how to play well. The way to learn how to play well is to understand why you do certain things in a poker hand. Figuring out what your VPIP should be in the CO or your AF of 1.5 should be more like 1.4 is not going to get you any further in understanding poker.

The next time you feel like your game is messed up and you decide to post some stats, try posting something else. Maybe a hand representing a tough situation you are faced with all the time, maybe a hand you thought you played well, or one you played bad, or a poker-philosophy oriented post, maybe about position or check-raising or defending your blinds (or not) or not going on tilt or something like that.

Think about the game, not your stats. For me, the stats are a curiosity-- they are neat. You do not need to have them be a certain way to win. You just have to win to win.

Do not be afraid to experiment with different styles of play. Different starting requirements in certain positions is a good example. For the past few months, I have made a rule for myself that I will start to play my blinds more. I have a set of rules governing when certain classes of hands are getting played, against who and with what odds and all of that. If it doesn't work out for the next few months, I'll try something different.

Nate's check-raising the turn post got me thinking about my game on later streets, not just preflop. It gave me some ideas to try out. So I'll experiment with those, try those out for a few months and see what happens.

What do a bunch of stats have to do with anything? The only way to get better is to think, write about, experiment with and play poker. Aligning your numbers is just going to teach you how to align some numbers not how to win. And you won't learn anything at all. While the stat aligners are off trying to make their VPIP look 'right', the good players are off experimenting, trying new things, and getting better at poker.

Think for yourself. If you think someone is wrong on here, write them a post why. If you came up with a cool idea for a strategy, write it on here. These stat alignment posts remind me of a couple of the science classes I taught. You would get some students who just wanted to memorize the formula and how to use it or whatever with no real understanding of what it means and you would get other students who could actually learn and think for themselves would think about what the formulas meant and really understand them. The people just trying to just do what they were supposed to do rather than learn never really learned anything. That is what these stat posts are like-- it is just mimicry of the stats of players who, through thinking about the game and experimenting, hit on a strategy which beats the game. If the games ever change, these stat aligner people, if they even beat these games, will not be able to adjust because they do not understand poker.

Teach a 2+2er to stat align and he'll win for a day, teach him how to play and he'll win forever. Ok that was wicked lame.

Rereading this before I post it, it comes off as bashing. But I'm not trying to bash. I'm trying to inspire.

Entity
05-23-2005, 04:26 PM
This is a great post, rory.

7ontheline
05-23-2005, 04:36 PM
Agreed, great post. Although I'm half-surprised Silverback hasn't shown up to defend stat posts. . .

RunDownHouse
05-23-2005, 05:00 PM
Your street cred is the
only reason I even
opened up this thread.

SomethingClever
05-23-2005, 05:06 PM
Stat posts are my leak /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

When I run bad I am overwhelmed with an almost uncontrollable urge to post them.

I posted one the other day on tilt, but luckily deleted it while I still had time.

Silverback
05-23-2005, 05:33 PM
yes its a good post.

However through some peoples stats posts I have seen how they approach the game, something I couldnt have worked out in such a short time by not seeing them. For example, positional stats of some respected posters.

Also, I went through many many stats posts and worked out what figures were considered "the norm"

This helped me a bit in determining whether I was running well or poor,

Over a decent sample and from a winning player I have found them useful, or the comments of a respected poster on stats has been useful, to me anyway.

Silverback
05-23-2005, 05:54 PM
Sorry I was a bit slow,

DrGutshot
05-23-2005, 05:57 PM
I promised myself I wouldn´t check this damn forum while I was in rome, but damnit, A+ post.

-DrG

Alobar
05-23-2005, 06:16 PM
can this post be stickied to the top of the forum? (well except for that wicked lame line at the end /images/graemlins/wink.gif) Along with description of how to use the search feature for those that still insist on finding stat stuff.

StellarWind
05-23-2005, 06:48 PM
Just because some people use screwdrivers to drive nails does not mean that screwdrivers are useless.

Stats and stats posts are very valuable. You just need to use them properly.

The proper way to use statistics is to generate questions. The preflop strategy that I brought with me to 5/10 6-max produces about a 19% VP$IP. I could have found 5% more hands to play and moved on to the next topic. That would be stat aligning and it probably would have sucked.

What I actually did was realize that the best players seem to play a lot more hands than I do. Then I spent several days taking everything apart preflop and examining it. Finally I made some changes that I understand and am comfortable with.

I also discovered that my flop aggression seems to be very high by HUSH standards. This was a tremendous shock and I still don't know why I'm different. I do know that I better figure out because something important is obviously missing from my understanding of the game. This has led to many interesting questions, useful investigations, and some really bad experiments /images/graemlins/blush.gif. Bottom line: I've made a lot of progress on my flop play and my stats have hardly changed at all /images/graemlins/cool.gif.