JJ on SB.

[iluzion]

At 2/4 a 40/20/1.5 raises from UTG, an unknown re-raises, folded to you in the SB with JJ, BB is extremely loose and you think theres a good chance he'll be on for the ride as well, what's a good move?

[Pokey]

I'd cap for value.

[JoshuaD]

http://japanesecentral.com/Siryoo/pictureclips/clothes/cap.jpg

[brettbrettr]

nh.

[KDawgCometh]

bust a cap in his ass. nice graphic josh /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Nick C]

I don't think the cap is as obvious as people are making it out to be so far.

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think the cap is as obvious as people are making it out to be so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's obvious, but I think it's the right play.

[Nick C]

The 3-bettor is going to have AA/KK/QQ (18 combinations) a significant amount of the time. Lesser hands such as AK/AQ/TT (38 combinations) are certainly also possible, but may not be as frequent as the combination count would seem to indicate. (Also, we're much further behind AA-QQ than we are ahead of AK/AQ.)

Since the 3-bettor is unknown, it's hard to put him on any sort of a definite range. But it seems likely he doesn't know what a LAG UTG is, so he's quite likely 3-betting with whatever his usual 3-betting (versus cold-calling) range is here.

BB could be less likely to hang around if we cap, which could be good or bad, depending on whether we need to flop a set or not.

If we cap, we don't get to see if UTG wants to.

In some ways, I think capping makes postflop more difficult.

So, on the whole, while a cap could be for value, I think the value might be thin. And, overall, the decision seems complicated to me.

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
Since the 3-bettor is unknown, it's hard to put him on any sort of a definite range. But it seems likely he doesn't know what a LAG UTG is, so he's quite likely 3-betting with whatever his usual 3-betting (versus cold-calling) range is here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you think the 3-bettor doesn't know that UTG is a LAG? The fact that UTG is a LAG and that the 3-bettor is likely (20%, 30%?) to be a TAG, I think a cap has some major value. Throw in the fact that the BB will ride along with alot of junk, I think it's a clear cap.

I don't think we learn too much if UTG caps this hand. LAGs tend to cap loosely in big multiway pots.

[Pokey]

Nick, you make some really good points. I was tempted to change my mind until I remembered that we're talking about a PP 2/4 table.

A good player has an incredibly small reraise standard, true; I'm not at all convinced that's what we're facing. Even with a good player, if it was an Iso Raise, he could have any pair, Axs, or even a strong king -- against a LAG, those are perfectly reasonable hands to try to isolate with.

Also, BB might call two raisers but fold three of 'em, and narrowing the field is a good thing when you've got a weak made hand.

This hand should be reasonably straightforward postflop:

- any J and hero bets like the chips are on fire.
- no paint hero leads and reraises the flop, slowing down to a cap.
- one overcard hero can either bet/call or check/raise/call, depending on your mood.
- multiple overcards hero can check/fold.

At a 5/10 table, this cap might make life more difficult. At a 2/4 table, it just doesn't seem like that much of an issue to me.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you think the 3-bettor doesn't know that UTG is a LAG? The fact that UTG is a LAG and that the 3-bettor is likely (20%, 30%?) to be a TAG, I think a cap has some major value.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking the unknown is probably new to the table. There could be other reasons we have reads on UTG and BB but not the unknown, but I was working from the idea that he's probably new to the table.

[ QUOTE ]
Throw in the fact that the BB will ride along with alot of junk, I think it's a clear cap.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do think a cap from us will deter this, somewhat.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think we learn too much if UTG caps this hand. LAGs tend to cap loosely in big multiway pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you may be right.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
A good player has an incredibly small reraise standard, true; I'm not at all convinced that's what we're facing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some bad players (who like to cold-call) have an even smaller 3-bet standard.

I'm not convinced we're facing a standard 3-bet either, though.

[ QUOTE ]
Even with a good player, if it was an Iso Raise, he could have any pair, Axs, or even a strong king -- against a LAG, those are perfectly reasonable hands to try to isolate with.

[/ QUOTE ]

If we have good reason to suspect an Iso raise, then I agree that we should cap.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, BB might call two raisers but fold three of 'em, and narrowing the field is a good thing when you've got a weak made hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that against an Iso raise, this would be a good thing. Against a legitimate 3-betting hand, I'm not as sure.

Anyway, I've been running into bigger pocket pairs more often than I'd prefer to, lately, and this may be influencing my thinking.

Also, I haven't played 2/4 for a couple of months, so I'm a little out of touch with that game, at the moment.

[thejameser]

You should probably reraise, I don't know how tough your opponents are here, or their PFR standards/range of hands so I could see a call given a certain texture. I hate your early position but if you flop a set and the BB is as loose as you say he is alot of BB's could be won in the process. FWIW 99.9% I reraise.