Request for set hands [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

TripleH68

05-23-2005, 01:35 PM

Here's one to start you off...

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $2.
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 caps, MP3 calls, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (21.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 calls, BB calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls $2 (All-In), MP3 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (15.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 folds, BB calls.

River: (18.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: 18.75 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has Ad Qh (one pair, queens).
Hero has 6c 6h (three of a kind, sixes).
UTG+1 has 8c 7c (one pair, eights).
MP1 has 4d 3h (high card, king).
Outcome: Hero wins 18.75 BB.

istewart

05-23-2005, 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
MP1 caps

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
MP1 has 4d 3h

[/ QUOTE ]

SCfuji

05-23-2005, 01:39 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
3 folds, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, MP3 folds, Button calls, Hero caps, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Chat insert ommitted by converter: Zulukingla (Button): c/r pieceof XXXX

River: (20.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 23.50 BB

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 01:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Here's one to start you off...

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $2.
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 caps, MP3 calls, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (21.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 calls, BB calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls $2 (All-In), MP3 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (15.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 folds, BB calls.

River: (18.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: 18.75 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has Ad Qh (one pair, queens).
Hero has 6c 6h (three of a kind, sixes).
UTG+1 has 8c 7c (one pair, eights).
MP1 has 4d 3h (high card, king).
Outcome: Hero wins 18.75 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop is good. I basically won't fold a pair once I'm in preflop. Maybe if it's 3-back to me with 2 opponents or something.

Flop good. A cr traps opponents better than leading. You shouldn't be concerned about hand protection and it doesn't look like you are.

Turn is good.

Bet the river. Depending on where the raise from I still call. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Don't include results.

Krishan

TripleH68

05-23-2005, 01:40 PM

Post deleted by TripleH68

SCfuji

05-23-2005, 01:41 PM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Button folds, Hero caps, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (13 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

istewart

05-23-2005, 01:42 PM

Yes, I would have.

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 01:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
3 folds, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, MP3 folds, Button calls, Hero caps, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Chat insert ommitted by converter: Zulukingla (Button): c/r pieceof XXXX

River: (20.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 23.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop I like a call better but I don't mind a raise.

Flop, this is a pretty crappy flop for a set. It's two flush (flushes pretty much never matter when you have a set) but it also has straight draws written all over it. I think leading and hoping he raises to clear out the field. This isn't a horrible spot to go for a turn cr if you are going for value. The board is K high and villian is unlikely to check behind.

Turn, I prefer a lead hoping to clear people out. CR attempt isn't bad. Good followthough and okay cap.

River, good bet. If you get raised I think you are beat but you would have to call.

Krishan

KingOtter

05-23-2005, 01:45 PM

Here's another 66 hand:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP2 raises, CO folds, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, MP2 calls.

River: (9 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls $0.50 (All-In).

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

I don't like waiting for the turn because I get bitch-slapped every time I do it, no matter what hand.

KO

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 01:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Button folds, Hero caps, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (13 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop I like.

I dislike the flop. I bet this everytime and try and trap the player in the middle. You have a monster and are representing a monster. With a set, you should act weak. A flop cr looks stronger than a flop lead. Also when you bet, UTG will raise enough to make 3-betting a very real possiblity.

Turn and river look good.

Krishan

gharp

05-23-2005, 01:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (13 SB) 9, Q, K

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop, this is a pretty crappy flop for a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I love these flops with a set -- the high cards make other people think they have good hands and the drawy texture makes those drawing hands stick around. I feel like this is where sets make the most money. Is that crazy?

JordanIB

05-23-2005, 01:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With a set, you should act weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the glorious advice for which we are posting sets??

Seems like a pretty horrid rule of thumb, especially on the coordinated flop on this JJ hand.

TripleH68

05-23-2005, 01:50 PM

One more from me...getting tricky...

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks. Arrrgh!

River: (8.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, CO folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 caps, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 19.25 BB

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 01:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Here's another 66 hand:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP2 raises, CO folds, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, MP2 calls.

River: (9 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls $0.50 (All-In).

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfect.

Flop, lead because it looks weak. You don't want to try for a turn checkraise because too many cards can come that will kill your action (A-J). Also the board is very drawy and you don't want your opponents to take a free card. Plus a turn cr shuts out UTG. So great flop 3-bet.

Turn and river are standard.

Krishan

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 01:52 PM

deception5

05-23-2005, 01:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is the glorious advice for which we are posting sets??

Seems like a pretty horrid rule of thumb, especially on the coordinated flop on this JJ hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

The idea here is that a check/raise will make it look like you have a monster and slow your opponents down. A better line might be to just go ahead and bet. Since you could be betting with almost anything (a flush draw, an oesd, etc) you will be able to get _more_ money in by just betting.

JordanIB

05-23-2005, 01:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With a set, you should act weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the glorious advice for which we are posting sets??

Seems like a pretty horrid rule of thumb, especially on the coordinated flop on this JJ hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Feel free not to read.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

But then the advice would go without comment. And that would be unfortunate.

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 01:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
One more from me...getting tricky...

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks. Arrrgh!

River: (8.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, CO folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 caps, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 19.25 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop is good.

I'd lead the turn. Can't be results oriented though. Sometimes a cr isn't a bad idea. Normally you want a laggy player somewhere or a preflop raiser or something. Also if the flop was rainbow a turn check-raise will succeed more often because it's less likely for people to be sticking around with a draw.

River is fine. 3-bet is fine because a lot of 2 pair hands might raise the river. Cap is bad for your but you'll certainly be good enough to call.

Krishan

SCfuji

05-23-2005, 01:58 PM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero calls, MP calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, MP calls, Button 3-bets, SB folds, BB caps, Hero calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB calls $0.91 (All-In), Hero bets, MP folds, Button calls.

River: (12.95 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 14.95 BB

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 01:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With a set, you should act weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the glorious advice for which we are posting sets??

Seems like a pretty horrid rule of thumb, especially on the coordinated flop on this JJ hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is a real response. A flop cr doesn't protect your hand. Also this flop has a ton of openenders that aren't going to fold for any amount of bets. Openended straight draws are as good as flush draws in this respect. So the only thing you can do here is pump the pot as large as possible and hope.

A turn CR would protect you hand a little from gutshots but it's too risky since the preflop raiser could check behind on overcards.

Krishan

JordanIB

05-23-2005, 01:59 PM

Let me be clear. I'm not advocating the check-raise. I'd bet out too, but the rationale is not "it looks weak and will get more money in there."

Party 1/2 -- for the most part, flush draws, two pairs, top pairs, 8's, Q's, maybe even K's, AK, aren't going anywhere on a check-raise, so I doubt you have to worry about looking strong on this flop.

You flopped a vulnerable top set. Bet it. Not to show weakness. But because you have the best hand.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is the glorious advice for which we are posting sets??

Seems like a pretty horrid rule of thumb, especially on the coordinated flop on this JJ hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

The idea here is that a check/raise will make it look like you have a monster and slow your opponents down. A better line might be to just go ahead and bet. Since you could be betting with almost anything (a flush draw, an oesd, etc) you will be able to get _more_ money in by just betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

EDITED to remove a stray fragment and to say that I think we're on the same page. I just think you did an awful job of conveying it originally.

SCfuji

05-23-2005, 02:05 PM

how often will the villain raise a preflop capper/flop leader? this one seems closer than it looks imo and this is coming from a player that doesnt check raise very often with strong hands.

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 02:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero calls, MP calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, MP calls, Button 3-bets, SB folds, BB caps, Hero calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB calls $0.91 (All-In), Hero bets, MP folds, Button calls.

River: (12.95 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 14.95 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming the table was ultra passive. Calling 22 UTG shorthanded as a default is a money loser.

Tough hand. I don't think you can do anything different. The best plan with someone all in is to arrange it so everyone calls his all in and then you raise. It's not possible to do this here. I thought about calling the flop but I like a raise better since BB might be stacking off. Your opponents will call flop raises from someone raise a player stacking off more readily than turn bets.

Turn raise is easy.

River is standard.

Krishan

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 02:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
how often will the villain raise a preflop capper/flop leader? this one seems closer than it looks imo and this is coming from a player that doesnt check raise very often with strong hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

On that board I think he might raise the flop with a wide range of hands if you lead. He might raise made hands AJ or draws QJ.

Krishan

SCfuji

05-23-2005, 02:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming the table was ultra passive

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
MP calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks

[/ QUOTE ]

all day long. the trick to multi-tabling is sorting your tables on your screen in an order of aggression. you can do it anyway you want. tables that you move to the top of your monitor can be "aggressive" and tables below can be "passive". helps keep me sane during my long sessions.

JordanIB

05-23-2005, 02:11 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 caps, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (17.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 raises, Hero folds, UTG+1 3-bets, MP3 caps, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 25.50 BB

Maurader1

05-23-2005, 02:15 PM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, BB calls.

River: (12 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 02:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP3 caps, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (17.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 raises, Hero folds, UTG+1 3-bets, MP3 caps, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 25.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer a flop lead to a cr. I wouldn't want it to get checked around (Although I know that's not real likely). I think the odds of you getting to 3-bet are only slightly worse than getting to cr and 3-betting wins more money.

Turn 3-bet is good. I'm looking to fill up on the river once it gets capped.

River fold is good.

Krishan

JordanIB

05-23-2005, 02:17 PM

Is 3-betting the river spewing?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (7 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, CO folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, Button caps, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

River: (17.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

FlopMe

05-23-2005, 02:18 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: FlopMe is SB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $0.5.
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, 2 folds, FlopMe raises, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP3 folds.

Flop: (7 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
FlopMe bets, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
FlopMe bets, BB folds, MP1 raises, FlopMe 3-bets, MP1 caps, FlopMe calls.

River: (13 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
FlopMe checks, MP1 bets, FlopMe calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

Results in white below: 
MP1 has Js Ac (straight, ace high).
MP2 doesn't show.
FlopMe has Ks Kc (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: MP1 wins 15 BB.

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 02:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, BB calls.

River: (12 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I call the flop and wait for the turn. The Q is a good card to wait on. There are only 8 cards that could come that are higher. Your relative position is terrible. If you raise the flop the field is faced with 2. If they have weak draws (1 pair) you want them to stay on the flop. If they have strong draws (flush, open ender) you want them to pay the max on the turn.

Given that you raised, I call the 3-bet and raise the turn. Given that you capped, leading the turn is fine.

I like the check-call on the river. Hope he rivered 2 pair.

Krishan

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 02:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is 3-betting the river spewing?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (7 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, CO folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, Button caps, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

River: (17.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I lead the flop. Give that you didn't I call the flop raise and try to get some of the middle players to call the flop. I then lead or cr the turn depending on the card.

Turn is fine.

River is fine depending on Villians agression level. I would check and call against some. Bet-call against some. 3-bet against none.

Likely hands are 88, a8, a9, a5, 67.

Krishan

Maurader1

05-23-2005, 02:32 PM

When I raised the flop, I was probably thinking of trying to get the flush draws to fold, but I realize now that flush draws will probably call anyways getting 4.5:1. I may have capped the flop thinking "Get their money while you can, because they may not bet again on the turn" The hand happened a while ago, so I'm not sure what my reads were

My relative position is horrible to max my winnings, but I think my rp is excellent for hand protection?

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 02:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: FlopMe is SB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $0.5.
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, 2 folds, FlopMe raises, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP3 folds.

Flop: (7 SB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
FlopMe bets, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
FlopMe bets, BB folds, MP1 raises, FlopMe 3-bets, MP1 caps, FlopMe calls.

River: (13 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
FlopMe checks, MP1 bets, FlopMe calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

Results in white below: 
MP1 has Js Ac (straight, ace high).
MP2 doesn't show.
FlopMe has Ks Kc (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: MP1 wins 15 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't include results.

I'd at least consider bet-calling the river. I think check calling is fine against most opponents.

Krishan

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My relative position is horrible to max my winnings, but I think my rp is excellent for hand protection?

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to think about what you are protecting your hand against. A flush draw and openenders are sticking around no matter what. A 5 out 1 pair hand is drawing nearly dead. The only draw you want to force out is a gutshot. On this board there aren't a ton of gutshots. K9, j8, 98. Compare that to the number of hands that are drawing very thin.

Krishan

bottomset

05-23-2005, 03:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Please post your bottomset hands in this thread. Preferably one that is at least 3 handed for a couple streets. I'm going to comment on all of them. I think sets and the mindset behind bottomsets sometimes goes awry.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Kumubou

05-23-2005, 03:15 PM

Did someone say bottom set?

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Heroine is Button with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, CO raises, Heroine calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (14.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (7 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, Heroine raises, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (10.20 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
MP3 checks, CO checks, Heroine bets, MP3 calls, CO calls.

River: (13.20 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
MP3 checks, CO checks, Heroine bets, MP3 calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 15.20 BB

-K

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 03:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Did someone say bottom set?

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Heroine is Button with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, CO raises, Heroine calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (14.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (7 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, Heroine raises, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (10.20 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
MP3 checks, CO checks, Heroine bets, MP3 calls, CO calls.

River: (13.20 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
MP3 checks, CO checks, Heroine bets, MP3 calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 15.20 BB

-K

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop is good.

Ugg. Why cr the flop. You have a monster hand and the most likely person to check raise will shut out the field. Lead the flop, 3-bet a raise. You really extracted the minimum here. /images/graemlins/grin.gif Hope I'm not too harsh.

Edit: Okay, not very relevant analysis the first time around.

I wait till the turn here to raise. You are pretty much a lock here. The top card on the flop is an ace. There are no draws. The flop better is very likely to bet the turn. If he doesn't you still have position so there is no danger of having it checked through.

Krishan

gharp

05-23-2005, 03:26 PM

Don't listen to him! Check-raising from the button is always a spectacular play. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I think this hand's played perfectly, FWIW.

JordanIB

05-23-2005, 03:37 PM

No offense, but I don't think it adds much to the thread to post sets where the Hero is the unchallenged aggressor on every street. Rare is the case where this is played incorrectly, or you will be told to play different.

That's why I liked mine (55 and 77)

[ QUOTE ]
Did someone say bottom set?

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Heroine is Button with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, CO raises, Heroine calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (14.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (7 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, Heroine raises, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (10.20 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
MP3 checks, CO checks, Heroine bets, MP3 calls, CO calls.

River: (13.20 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
MP3 checks, CO checks, Heroine bets, MP3 calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 15.20 BB

-K

[/ QUOTE ]

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 03:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No offense, but I don't think it adds much to the thread to post sets where the Hero is the unchallenged aggressor on every street. Rare is the case where this is played incorrectly, or you will be told to play different.

That's why I liked mine (55)

[ QUOTE ]
Did someone say bottom set?

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Heroine is Button with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, CO raises, Heroine calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (14.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (7 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, Heroine raises, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (10.20 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
MP3 checks, CO checks, Heroine bets, MP3 calls, CO calls.

River: (13.20 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
MP3 checks, CO checks, Heroine bets, MP3 calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 15.20 BB

-K

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I think this is my favorite. Everone who says, "fastplay is the new slowplaying" misses out on huge value. We faced 4 players with 2 bets on the flop. Some of them would have called 1. And you would have been able to get a raise in on a big street. Infinitely superior to the line taken in the existing hand. I think in this hand raising the flop may be a 2 BB mistake. That's 60 hands worth of work.

Krishan

JordanIB

05-23-2005, 03:47 PM

Disagree. Raise the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No offense, but I don't think it adds much to the thread to post sets where the Hero is the unchallenged aggressor on every street. Rare is the case where this is played incorrectly, or you will be told to play different.

That's why I liked mine (55)

[ QUOTE ]
Did someone say bottom set?

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Heroine is Button with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, CO raises, Heroine calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (14.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (7 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, Heroine raises, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (10.20 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
MP3 checks, CO checks, Heroine bets, MP3 calls, CO calls.

River: (13.20 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
MP3 checks, CO checks, Heroine bets, MP3 calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 15.20 BB

-K

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I think this is my favorite. Everone who says, "fastplay is the new slowplaying" misses out on huge value. We faced 4 players with 2 bets on the flop. Some of them would have called 1. And you would have been able to get a raise in on a big street. Infinitely superior to the line taken in the existing hand. I think in this hand raising the flop may be a 2 BB mistake. That's 60 hands worth of work.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

KingOtter

05-23-2005, 04:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Disagree. Raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've shown such insight here that it is hard to argue with you.

KO

mvoss

05-23-2005, 04:31 PM

Noble Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif
MP1 calls, Hero raises, 2 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop:(10 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, CO raises, 3 fold, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

Turn:(9 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River:(11 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final pot: 13 BB

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Noble Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif
MP1 calls, Hero raises, 2 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop:(10 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, CO raises, 3 fold, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

Turn:(9 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River:(11 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final pot: 13 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop, fine. You have to bet. Unlucky that you got raised.

Turn I bet and call down if raised. People don't normally raise made flushes to force the field out on the flop. I'd put in 1 more bet before calling down.

Krishan

KingOtter

05-23-2005, 05:17 PM

What about sets that don't hit on the flop?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

I got scared he wasn't going to bet on the river.

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 05:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What about sets that don't hit on the flop?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

I got scared he wasn't going to bet on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

cr the turn. It looks like a hand protection raise on the flop. Most likely a T. Nice 3-bet on the river.

That's all for me now. The idea behind this thread is you can look at the different things I consider when I have a set. It's not about learning the right play in each situation. It's about learning the reasons why the right play is the right play and applying that to your game.

Krishan

tiltaholic

05-23-2005, 05:31 PM

still collecting?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, Button raises, SB calls, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero 3-bets, MP2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (13 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, SB calls $6.21 (All-In), Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (23.65 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 25.65 BB

dozer

05-23-2005, 07:04 PM

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO posts a blind of $1.50.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO (poster) calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 folds, CO calls.

River: (15.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 21.75 BB

Entity

05-23-2005, 07:10 PM

Relevant reads: UTG was generally loose/aggressive and saw showdowns quite often. BB and CO loose-passive. MP unknown but seemed TAGGish.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, MP raises, CO calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP bets, CO folds, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, MP calls.

Turn: (8.20 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP calls.

River: (11.20 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP calls.

Final Pot: 17.20 BB

KeysrSoze

05-23-2005, 07:33 PM

Bonehead move not raising flop?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP posts a blind of $0.5.
Hero calls, MP (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB bets, BB raises, Hero calls, MP folds, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

yep, i'm an idiot /images/graemlins/smile.gif

DerFleischmeister

05-23-2005, 08:46 PM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) Convertin' Tool (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 4 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (7 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 4h 4s (three of a kind, fours).
UTG+2 shows (LOL) [8d, 5d] (a straight, four to eight).
Outcome: Donk wins 9 BB. 

MondoLAG table:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) DerKonverter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, 1 fold, Hero cold-calls (because UTG+1 is about 100/100/900²), CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero caps, CO calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, CO calls, UTG calls.

River: (15.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, CO calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 4d 4c (full house, fours full of tens).
CO has 6d Kh (two pair, kings and tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 17.50 BB. 

And, The Grandaddy Of Them All:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) bisonbison's gr8 convertin' thingy (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 caps, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (16.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG+1 raises, MP2 calls, MP3 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (36.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, UTG+1 caps, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 56.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has Ah 3h (flush, ace high).
UTG+1 has Qh 8d (two pair, eights and fours).
MP2 has Jc Js (two pair, jacks and fours).
MP3 has Kh Th (flush, king high).
Hero has 9c 9d (full house, nines full of fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 56.50 BB.

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 08:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
still collecting?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls, Button raises, SB calls, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero 3-bets, MP2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (13 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, SB calls $6.21 (All-In), Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (23.65 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 25.65 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Really nice flop call the first time. Great 3-bet the second time. This isn't a good flop to try a cr on the turn even though the likely better is to your right. Too many potential overcards can freeze him up.

Good turn, good river.

VBM

05-23-2005, 08:51 PM

(at the time, no hands, but since then villain is 20/5/1.5)

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 08:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO posts a blind of $1.50.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO (poster) calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 folds, CO calls.

River: (15.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 21.75 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the flop bet. You stand to trap 2 players by leading and 2 players by trying a cr. When in doubt, I like a bet. Turn is good. River is good. In general you guys have great agression on big bet streets.

Krishan

hbaromega

05-23-2005, 09:48 PM

Hi, I've been reading the micro forums for a while with the intention of posting something, here goes:
Button is loose passive/passive, SB is tight agressive/passive, BB is semi-loose passive/passive

Calling pf in mp1 is kind of borderline for me, sometimes I fold if no one has limped yet, is this too tight?

PokerRoom 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif , 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif .
1 fold, UTG+1 calls,
1 fold, Hero calls,
2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (13 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (17 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks?

I checked with the intention of calling one and folding if it is two to me. After looking back at the hand I'm thinking betting might not be bad because I could get a crying call from two-pair, though I would hate to be raised.

Thoughts?

Also I would like to thank everyone on the forum, you have been very helpful.

MDO67

05-23-2005, 09:57 PM

Here is my most recent set. I stayed in to the river with my pair because there was only one overcard on the board. Was my thinking OK here or should I have done this differently?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, CO calls, Button :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, Button :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, CO folds, Villain calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain checks.

River: (4.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Villain calls.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

bottomset

05-24-2005, 04:29 AM

I got a sorta tricky one

pretty good table, though I've been cold-decked pretty fierce, so anythinking player will give plenty of credit, though I think there is only 1 decent player at the table

the LRR has only been at the table 6hands, and hasn't played anything before this

the PFR has only played 1orbit, but seems to be pretty LAG preflop, postflop pretty unknown

the button cold-donker is LPP
the SB slightly LAGGY, more agressive on the flop and turn, pretty passive on the river

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: bottomset is UTG+1 with 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, bottomset calls, MP1 raises, 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG 3-bets, bottomset calls, MP1 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (16 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, bottomset raises, MP1 folds, Button folds, SB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (10 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, bottomset bets, UTG raises, bottomset calls.

River: (14 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, bottomset calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

ClaytonN

05-24-2005, 04:32 AM

My turn

Posted in a seperate thread, though!

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, MP2 folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (4 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls.

River: (12 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

Hero shows 88
Villain shows 33

I had 33 as my first guess and KJ as my second guess. The pot was unraised.

Kinda curious about my flop decision, especially in an unraised pot with numerous players to act behind you on that board.

Schwartzy61

05-24-2005, 05:45 AM

This was a little while ago, looks like I misplayed slightly. Probably should've bet the flop and hoped button raised again. I don't remember and it looks like my first hand at the table anyway so... I only have 3 hands total on the button in my database...

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Schwartzy61 is MP3 with 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif. Schwartzy61 posts a blind of $0.5.
4 folds, Schwartzy61 (poster) raises, CO calls, Button 3-bets, SB calls, BB calls, Schwartzy61 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Schwartzy61 checks, CO checks, Button bets, SB calls, BB calls, Schwartzy61 raises, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Schwartzy61 bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds.

River: (15.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Schwartzy61 bets, CO folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Schwartzy61 has 6h 6c (three of a kind, sixes).
Button has As Qh (high card, ace).
Outcome: Schwartzy61 wins 17.50 BB. 

Another one, I'm starting think I might suck at playing sets. I assume I was hoping for the checkraise against so many opponents:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Schwartzy61 is SB with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
4 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Schwartzy61 completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
Schwartzy61 checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
Schwartzy61 bets, BB folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Button folds.

River: (4.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Schwartzy61 bets, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Schwartzy61 has 3c 3d (full house, threes full of queens).
MP3 has 9h 9s (two pair, queens and nines).
Outcome: Schwartzy61 wins 6.50 BB.

Phlebas

05-24-2005, 09:56 AM

This one has been worrying me for some time. I think I probably misplayed it horribly but I haven't a clue how it could have been played better.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, MP3 caps, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (20 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 folds, MP3 caps, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

I thought about check/calling the flop and then check-raising the turn (assuming that MP3 would raise both) but I figured that this wouldn't have protected my hand at all - there would have been 15BBs in the pot by the time the action got back to BB on the turn and he would continue calling with pretty much any draw given 7.5:1 odds. So I reckoned that I might as well get as many bets in the pot as possible while ahead.

Turn: (18.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls $2 (All-In), Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

Ditto - a check raise wouldn't protect anything.

River: (29.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 35.50 BB

Probably dumb to bet the river given the possible straight but I thought I was as likely to be up against a busted flush draw and two pair as anything else. MP3 could possibly have been raising with AK clubs (and he was all-in by now) but I didn't think that K9 or 98 were that likely.

krishanleong

05-24-2005, 09:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Relevant reads: UTG was generally loose/aggressive and saw showdowns quite often. BB and CO loose-passive. MP unknown but seemed TAGGish.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, MP raises, CO calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP bets, CO folds, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, MP calls.

Turn: (8.20 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP calls.

River: (11.20 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP calls.

Final Pot: 17.20 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Too many sets, you guys are insane.

Good hand Entity. I would consider waiting till the turn to raise but your read seemed to indicate UTG would be happy calling 2. A flop raise in this situation is great since you still get good value on flop and might get action later in the hand (like the river) because a flop raise isn't that scary.

Krishan

krishanleong

05-24-2005, 10:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bonehead move not raising flop?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP posts a blind of $0.5.
Hero calls, MP (poster) checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB bets, BB raises, Hero calls, MP folds, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

yep, i'm an idiot /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfect. The board is ace high. Villians are betting made hands, not draws. You have a monster. Wait till the turn to extract 2 big bets instead of extra small bets. Nice hand.

Krishan

krishanleong

05-24-2005, 10:06 AM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) Convertin' Tool (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 4 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (7 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 4h 4s (three of a kind, fours).
UTG+2 shows (LOL) [8d, 5d] (a straight, four to eight).
Outcome: Donk wins 9 BB. 

Bet the river, call a raise. Don't post results.

MondoLAG table:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) DerKonverter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, 1 fold, Hero cold-calls (because UTG+1 is about 100/100/900²), CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero caps, CO calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, CO calls, UTG calls.

River: (15.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, CO calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has 4d 4c (full house, fours full of tens).
CO has 6d Kh (two pair, kings and tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 17.50 BB. 

Call the first flop bet. Since you didn't, call the 3-bet and cr the turn. In general, capping the flop with a set is bad when you think you can get 2 bets in on the turn by smooth calling a 3-bet.

And, The Grandaddy Of Them All:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) bisonbison's gr8 convertin' thingy (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 caps, Hero calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (16.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG+1 raises, MP2 calls, MP3 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (36.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, UTG+1 caps, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 56.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has Ah 3h (flush, ace high).
UTG+1 has Qh 8d (two pair, eights and fours).
MP2 has Jc Js (two pair, jacks and fours).
MP3 has Kh Th (flush, king high).
Hero has 9c 9d (full house, nines full of fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 56.50 BB. 

Too painful to look at. Nice hand I'll assume.

Krishan

krishanleong

05-24-2005, 10:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
(at the time, no hands, but since then villain is 20/5/1.5)

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I go bezerk on the river. Most people don't cap flush draws on the turn. I think you will be shown 55 or 66 often enough to make a river 3-bet profitable.

Krishan

krishanleong

05-24-2005, 10:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, I've been reading the micro forums for a while with the intention of posting something, here goes:
Button is loose passive/passive, SB is tight agressive/passive, BB is semi-loose passive/passive

Calling pf in mp1 is kind of borderline for me, sometimes I fold if no one has limped yet, is this too tight?

PokerRoom 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif , 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif .
1 fold, UTG+1 calls,
1 fold, Hero calls,
2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (13 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (17 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks?

I checked with the intention of calling one and folding if it is two to me. After looking back at the hand I'm thinking betting might not be bad because I could get a crying call from two-pair, though I would hate to be raised.

Thoughts?

Also I would like to thank everyone on the forum, you have been very helpful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop call is good. Always do it.

Flop I can go either way on raising or waiting till the turn. Since you raised, you really need to call the 3-bet and raise the turn. You have position, it's not going to be checked through.

Turn is fine.

River I check also.

Krishan

Entity

05-24-2005, 10:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Relevant reads: UTG was generally loose/aggressive and saw showdowns quite often. BB and CO loose-passive. MP unknown but seemed TAGGish.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, MP raises, CO calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP bets, CO folds, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, MP calls.

Turn: (8.20 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP calls.

River: (11.20 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, MP bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP calls.

Final Pot: 17.20 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Too many sets, you guys are insane.

Good hand Entity. I would consider waiting till the turn to raise but your read seemed to indicate UTG would be happy calling 2. A flop raise in this situation is great since you still get good value on flop and might get action later in the hand (like the river) because a flop raise isn't that scary.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

The biggest thing I've noticed about waiting until the turn in shorthanded games is that people with good/decent hands will often 3-bet you on the flop with hands like AT or even KT, but there's no way that those same hands are 3-betting the turn. My preferred line on these hands, even given the drawless board, is to raise the flop (since, like you said, flop raises aren't scary to this crowd), bloat the pot, tie people onto it, and if 3-bet, call intending to pop the turn. I find that's generally a moneymaker, whereas a flop call/turn raise freezes even good players with good hands.

In this hand he didn't quite cooperate (as he didn't have enough hand to 3-bet the flop), but I got paid off by AQo and A/images/graemlins/club.gifQ/images/graemlins/club.gif.

Rob

krishanleong

05-24-2005, 10:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Here is my most recent set. I stayed in to the river with my pair because there was only one overcard on the board. Was my thinking OK here or should I have done this differently?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, CO calls, Button :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, Button :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, CO folds, Villain calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain checks.

River: (4.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Villain calls.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet, bet, bet this. I think you should at least bet, bet, call. (Although when you hit your set it's an easy river bet. It's a very drawy board and you likely have the best hand on the turn.

Krishan

krishanleong

05-24-2005, 10:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I got a sorta tricky one

pretty good table, though I've been cold-decked pretty fierce, so anythinking player will give plenty of credit, though I think there is only 1 decent player at the table

the LRR has only been at the table 6hands, and hasn't played anything before this

the PFR has only played 1orbit, but seems to be pretty LAG preflop, postflop pretty unknown

the button cold-donker is LPP
the SB slightly LAGGY, more agressive on the flop and turn, pretty passive on the river

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: bottomset is UTG+1 with 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, bottomset calls, MP1 raises, 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG 3-bets, bottomset calls, MP1 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (16 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, bottomset raises, MP1 folds, Button folds, SB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (10 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, bottomset bets, UTG raises, bottomset calls.

River: (14 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, bottomset calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty horrible hand. I dislike the flop raise. There are 3 people behind you. You have a monster full house on the flop. Why force them and their weak draws (or dead hands) out.

Given that you raise, the turn is begging to be 3-bet. I call a cap and probably raise the river. He is playing this just like a J. Don't give him credit for a full house until you've lost a lot more money.

Krishan

krishanleong

05-24-2005, 10:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My turn

Posted in a seperate thread, though!

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, MP2 folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (4 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls.

River: (12 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

Hero shows 88
Villain shows 33

I had 33 as my first guess and KJ as my second guess. The pot was unraised.

Kinda curious about my flop decision, especially in an unraised pot with numerous players to act behind you on that board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks fine. I like waiting.

Krishan

krishanleong

05-24-2005, 10:22 AM

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Schwartzy61 is MP3 with 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif. Schwartzy61 posts a blind of $0.5.
4 folds, Schwartzy61 (poster) raises, CO calls, Button 3-bets, SB calls, BB calls, Schwartzy61 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Schwartzy61 checks, CO checks, Button bets, SB calls, BB calls, Schwartzy61 raises, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Schwartzy61 bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds.

River: (15.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Schwartzy61 bets, CO folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Schwartzy61 has 6h 6c (three of a kind, sixes).
Button has As Qh (high card, ace).
Outcome: Schwartzy61 wins 17.50 BB. 

Don't ever post results. Ever. They do not matter and influence thinking in a negative way.

Great trapping cr on the flop. Turn and river are standard.

Another one, I'm starting think I might suck at playing sets. I assume I was hoping for the checkraise against so many opponents:

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Schwartzy61 is SB with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
4 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Schwartzy61 completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
Schwartzy61 checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
Schwartzy61 bets, BB folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Button folds.

River: (4.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Schwartzy61 bets, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Schwartzy61 has 3c 3d (full house, threes full of queens).
MP3 has 9h 9s (two pair, queens and nines).
Outcome: Schwartzy61 wins 6.50 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet the flop. Just because there is a big field doesn't mean someone on your left will bet. You are much better off just betting. There are a good number of draws on this board who will call but not bet.

Turn is good, river is good.

Krishan

krishanleong

05-24-2005, 10:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This one has been worrying me for some time. I think I probably misplayed it horribly but I haven't a clue how it could have been played better.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, MP3 caps, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (20 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 folds, MP3 caps, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

I thought about check/calling the flop and then check-raising the turn (assuming that MP3 would raise both) but I figured that this wouldn't have protected my hand at all - there would have been 15BBs in the pot by the time the action got back to BB on the turn and he would continue calling with pretty much any draw given 7.5:1 odds. So I reckoned that I might as well get as many bets in the pot as possible while ahead.

Turn: (18.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls $2 (All-In), Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

Ditto - a check raise wouldn't protect anything.

River: (29.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 35.50 BB

Probably dumb to bet the river given the possible straight but I thought I was as likely to be up against a busted flush draw and two pair as anything else. MP3 could possibly have been raising with AK clubs (and he was all-in by now) but I didn't think that K9 or 98 were that likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop is good.

Flop is very good. Good lead-3-bet. You are not trying to protect your hand in this pot. There is no way to do it.

The turn is interesting. The goal with someone all in is to do what you did. Bet into them is they can raise so you can 3-bet. Check raising is better if they have less than 1 bet left. Perfect.

Not betting the river would have been terrible. It's closer to a 3-bet than check. Calling the river is the best line though.

Krishan