a few folded to riverbet hands [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Kimpan

05-23-2005, 09:29 AM

I was looking through PT and found these hands, I may have had reads but I would like to have a "in general" guideline.

hand 1

maybe a turnbet is good here?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (6.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.20 BB

hand 2

this would be a bad turncall right? I am thinking I have about 6-7 outs?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB raises, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (9.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB bets, Hero folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 11.20 BB

hand 3

oh boy this one sucked.. the turncall makes no sense when folding the river... it's either fold the turn or call down (I think I only call down with a good read).

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, MP raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, MP calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.20 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.20 BB

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 09:31 AM

Hand 1 - I like the fold. Overcalling with Ace high is pretty much always a bad idea. A turn bet should be considered but I think I like the check.

Hand 2 - Easy fold.

Hand 3 - I like the turn call. You are getting 7-1 on a 6-7 out draw. River fold is a must.

Krishan

kiddo

05-23-2005, 09:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 - I like the fold. Overcalling with Ace high is pretty much always a bad idea. A turn bet should be considered but I think I like the check.

Hand 2 - Easy fold.

Hand 3 - I like the turn call. You are getting 7-1 on a 6-7 out draw. River fold is a must.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree.

If u find these hands tricky to fold I would think u have a problem with folding overcards. Look in your database at how u treat AKs, because many players have a harder time folding this then AKo.

Nick Royale

05-23-2005, 09:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 - I like the fold. Overcalling with Ace high is pretty much always a bad idea. A turn bet should be considered but I think I like the check.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agree.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 - Easy fold.

Hand 3 - I like the turn call. You are getting 7-1 on a 6-7 out draw. River fold is a must.

[/ QUOTE ]
How come? You're recieving the same odds. The board in hand 3 is somewhat more coordinated, but if the river hits an T you will get much action from another K (on the other hand not much action if there's no K out). In hand 2 you get check/raised on the flop which suggests strength, but it could also mean just a Q hoping you're holding AK/AJ/JJ/TT or something. In hand 3 you get smooth called by a PFR and raised on the turn (even though you 3-betted preflop and show no weakness postflop). This suggests even more strenght. The cons in hand 2 is that you might be reversed dominated by button, but I still think your overcard outs is better in hand 2. I think both calls are close and hand 2 is not an easy fold IMO.

Edit: folding the river UI would be very easy in both hand 2 and 3.

kiddo

05-23-2005, 09:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: folding the river UI would be very easy in both hand 2 and 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, and that is what he is talking about when he says easy fold in hand 2.

Kimpan

05-23-2005, 09:57 AM

hmm I thought he meant easy fold on turn?
the river is a very easy fold in both hand 2 and hand 3 IMO

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 10:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
hmm I thought he meant easy fold on turn?
the river is a very easy fold in both hand 2 and hand 3 IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

No I meant the river. The turn is an easy call.

Krishan

Nick Royale

05-23-2005, 10:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Edit: folding the river UI would be very easy in both hand 2 and 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, and that is what he is talking about when he says easy fold in hand 2.

[/ QUOTE ]
OP didn't ask about the river so I assume he mean easy turn fold...

Nick Royale

05-23-2005, 10:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hmm I thought he meant easy fold on turn?
the river is a very easy fold in both hand 2 and hand 3 IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

No I meant the river. The turn is an easy call.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]
Then I agree.

Kimpan

05-23-2005, 11:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]

No I meant the river. The turn is an easy call.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm why is this turn easy? do I have 7 outs?

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 11:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

No I meant the river. The turn is an easy call.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm why is this turn easy? do I have 7 outs?

[/ QUOTE ]

How many outs do you need?

Krishan

Kimpan

05-23-2005, 11:58 AM

my math says 7...

Nick Royale

05-23-2005, 12:01 PM

Since you have 4 outs to the nuts (implied odds) I would call even with only 5 outs. I would like to give you ~6 outs here, not less.

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 12:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
my math says 7...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your math isn't good or something. Isn't a 6 out draw 6.6 to come? And you are getting 7-1 maybe 8-1? The post odds are giving you somewhere between 5-6 outs. You can give yourself implied odds of a bet on the straight.

I think you have at LEAST 5 outs w/implied odds on 4. Probably closer to 6.5.

Krishan

Kimpan

05-23-2005, 12:47 PM

I count in %, could you explain this in %?

krishanleong

05-23-2005, 12:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I count in %, could you explain this in %?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand what you are saying. Sorry,

Krishan

kiddo

05-23-2005, 12:56 PM

After turncall pot is 9BB, if u hit your 4 outer u will at least 1 more, maybe 2. Then pot is 10-11BB. A 4 outer will hit about 1/12 and pot gives 1/10-11 if u hit.

So calling with inside straight is marginal EV-, but together with 2 overcards that will win pretty often this is an easy call.