help me...

[SCfuji]

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls.

Turn: (5.70 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero...

what do i do and what is my plan vs an unknown?

[SoftcoreRevolt]

Reraises.

[irishpint]

call and check/call the river unimproved, unless it's a club. you have 10 outs to a boat or 4 of a kind so you're not dead to a flush, which is the logical thing villian is betting with. however it could be villian has AQ with the A of clubs or something, so i'd call the river. However I dunno what I know.

[SCfuji]

range of hands the villain could have with the action on the previous streets?

[SCfuji]

should i fold to another club on the river? i dont think ive ever folded a set in my life, is this bad?

[hicherbie]

calls down and folds to a river c?

[Shillx]

3-bet. If he caps, fold the river UI. I really like your hand in this spot for some reason.

Brad

[SCfuji]

fold the river for one bet to a deuce of nothing?

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
fold the river for one bet to a deuce of nothing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Give me a second. I need to go into the tank on this hand.

[SCfuji]

you have 20 seconds

[hicherbie]

hmm...i dont really see how he could play it this way without anything but a flush. the queen is a blank or a flush card for the villian. a smaller set woudlnt checkraise for fear of a free card (since he wouldnt have a club) and two pair looks unlikely....

[milesdyson]

I call here every day. Raise river if you boat, call if not a /images/graemlins/club.gif. If a /images/graemlins/club.gif, hate your life.

edit: the likelihood that he has 33/44/TT is slim(mer) because he only called your flop raise. Looks like AX/images/graemlins/club.gifs or KX/images/graemlins/club.gifs to me, although I wouldn't understand his flop bet really. He could even have KK or AA with the /images/graemlins/club.gif. A/images/graemlins/club.gifQ is out of the question, though. I highly doubt that he would bet the flop. I still would just call.

[ClaytonN]

How the hell is this microlimits?

[SteveL91]

What do you know about this guy? For some reason, I really don't think this guy has the flush; if he does, it's a fairly weak one. Maybe I'm being influenced by what I've heard about 5/10 6-max, but I think you're good here a fair amount.

[SCfuji]

just pretend.

[toss]

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet. If he caps, fold the river UI. I really like your hand in this spot for some reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whaaaaaaat? Fold the river UI? I don't think I can bring myself to that even if he does cap the turn.

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

[/ QUOTE ]

micro?

[Shillx]

Okay I changed my mind. Just call him down. There are some interesting strategy considerations if you can get lots of bets in on the river with a boat, but if you only get one bet on the river with a boat if you 3-bet the turn, you should call down (assuming you will get a double if you just call the turn c/r).

He will have a flush here far too often to try 3-betting here imo. I've played 1100 hands today (1-tableing) and I'm pretty sure that a beer bottle has more brain power then I do right now.

Brad

[ClaytonN]

I've been bubbled in 2 tournaments in the last 2 nights. I think I'm going to cry.

I really am clueless what's the best modus operandi with this set hand.

Common sense says call down. At least you'll get a read off of him.

After this hand, you'll know how he approaches draw hands in EP on the flop and made hands on the turn.

I'd like to get to showdown as cheaply as possible, but raise if you boat on the river.

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
I've played 1100 hands today (1-tableing) and I'm pretty sure that a beer bottle has more brain power then I do right now.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

My God. That would be like at least a 20 hour session. Doesn't your back hurt?

[tiltaholic]

i really think you need to call this down. personally i would pray for the boat.

but, on paper, does the action really suggest he flushed on the turn?

[DMBFan23]

I 3 bet and call down if he caps. QT, KT with the K:crub:, AT with the A:crub:, 33, 44, TT are all possible, as is a made flush.

I find then when I slow down in this spot against tight solid players it's usually prudent, but I'm not giving this guy credit for the flush just yet.

as insurance for our not having the best hand (which I still think is fairly likely) we also have the best draw. I think when you combine the equity from our possible/probable best hand + our best draw, you can 3-bet here. the only tough spot there is if he calls and checkraises a blank river. that almost NEVER happens though so I wouldn't sweat it.

[krishanleong]

I think it's a 3-bet and calldown. The hand range for a CO open raise is really really wide.

Krishan

[McGahee]

At 1/2 I would go into calldown mode, but that's because people at 1/2 won't raise in this spot without the flush.
I'm guessing at 5/10 villian is more likely to be trying to push you off your hand?

[bozlax]

Unless you have a read that Villan will follow-through on a failed steal attempt by being uber-aggro, call down the rest of the way. I picked up 15BB from a Villan yesterday in exactly this type of hand, except I had the bottom set not top, and I flopped it, and I'd seen him try to pull off the same play on 3 of the last 4 orbits (the only reason it stuck out in my mind).

If this weren't a failed steal attempt, I might fold to the 4th club on the river, but I don't think so the way this hand plays out. As unlikely as it seems, I put Villan on AQs or maybe QTs probably /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Maybe even AT, and he's being tricky.

Edit: I didn't even notice this is 5/10. I think that further supports my thesis, tho, since the players at these levels are even more aggro? I dunno.

[DMBFan23]

which AQs?

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
which AQs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, er, hmmmm, must be /images/graemlins/spade.gif. It's early, here, I'm only half-way through my first coffee, and I've only given one kid breakfast.

[AmarilloJim1]

I would call down through the river.

[AmarilloJim1]

I don't think reraising is a good idea, and there is no way I would fold the river.

[droolie]

All-in.

I think he has the flush a small % of the time.

Seriously though I'd three bet. If villian caps I'm probably caling down unless the board pairs if the board pairs I go all-in.

/images/graemlins/cool.gif


*edited to say this is HU action a lot of this kind of crap can be explained by villian getting tricky when he shouldn't. No way I'm giving him credit for a flush....yet.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
All-in.

I think he has the flush a small % of the time.

Seriously though I'd three bet. If villian caps I'm probably caling down unless the board pairs if the board pairs I go all-in.

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

look at the 6-max guru go.

he's all grows up. all grows up.

hijack:
sweet that you rebounded at 6max. I'm still 15bb down lifetime (2500 hands). It will hopefully come up (if I can drag myself away from the crazy 2/4 full tables)

[droolie]

hijack:
sweet that you rebounded at 6max. I'm still 15bb down lifetime (2500 hands). It will hopefully come up (if I can drag myself away from the crazy 2/4 full tables)

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for helping me dude. Having someone witness my twilight zone experience (and talk me through it) was more helpful than you can possibly imagine. I had another boo yah session this morning and my winrate is up to (0.40) now! Only 19.5BB in the red and only losing to the rake now. Hopefully I can get that friggin number green by the time I'm done clearing these bonii.

[DMBFan23]

I'm down 400 bones at 2/4 6 max, 3K hands. [censored] happens. and by [censored] I mean variance. and by variance I mean my source of profit and emotional pain all at the same time.

[SCfuji]

yeah i effed this hand up big time. i called the turn check raise then popped a totally blank river and got 3 bet. that shouldve been good enough for me to fold but noooo. im a fricken MORON NOOB ATM. asdfaw3rw

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah i effed this hand up big time. i called the turn check raise then popped a totally blank river and got 3 bet. that shouldve been good enough for me to fold but noooo. im a fricken MORON NOOB ATM. asdfaw3rw

[/ QUOTE ]

I would never fold this. If a line you take involves a fold somewhere along the line, choose a different line.

Krishan

[SCfuji]

even after the river 3 bet?

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
even after the river 3 bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't raise the river if getting 3-bet makes you want to blow chunks. You should not fold this hand.

Krishan

[SCfuji]

good point.

[SlantNGo]

3-bet this turn. Sure he could have a flush but a lower set would probably this way as well, in addition to a turned 2-pair or even weaker hands. I think you're ahead here way too often to just call down. If capped, call on the river. If not, bet/call the river.

[hicherbie]

with three Qs out it is much less likely he turned queens up. he slowed down on the flop to checkraise the turn. so most likely it was a needed club or a made set/2 pair to the turn. with a set, you would probably not have a club (with 4c as the exception).

i just dont think a low set would cr given these conditions most of the time. the raise pf, bet on flop and cr on turn all scream broadway high flush. but i would still call down.

[Jaran]

...Folds. Save yourself the anguish and pain. Take up scopa (a really cool italian card game). And definitely fold this pf.

-Jaran

(Thought I should make my first post in four months completely inane for some reason. Oh, 3bet, call the cap and call a non /images/graemlins/club.gif river. Raise if you boat up or quad up)

[SCfuji]

welcomio backio (in my best italian accent)

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]
...Folds. Save yourself the anguish and pain. Take up scopa (a really cool italian card game). And definitely fold this pf.

-Jaran

(Thought I should make my first post in four months completely inane for some reason. Oh, 3bet, call the cap and call a non /images/graemlins/club.gif river. Raise if you boat up or quad up)

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome back dude!

[mmbt0ne]

Hero 3bets. I think you are ahead here 60+% of the time.

[johnc]

I put the CO on A /images/graemlins/club.gifTx, K /images/graemlins/club.gifTx, A /images/graemlins/club.gifAx, J /images/graemlins/club.gifJx, or suited ( /images/graemlins/club.gif) smallish. The flop betting indicates he's got top pair or overcards and picked his club draw on the turn.
Or, he's got a small /images/graemlins/club.gif flush draw on the flop and slowed to your flop raise fearing a bigger flush draw. The check raise on the turn is an odd developement unless he's doing for it value or to be tricky and push you off.
Go into call down mode on the river.

[btspider]

sup.

[DeathDonkey]

Whoa Jaran still exists.

-DeathDonkey

[DeathDonkey]

Everything Krishan says in this thread I agree with. Calling down there is leaving money on the table at 5/10.

-DeathDonkey

[Joe Tall]

Call the flop; I'll let you boys chew on that for a while.

Play well and good luck,
Joe Tall

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
Call the flop; I'll let you boys chew on that for a while.

Play well and good luck,
Joe Tall

[/ QUOTE ]

if he has something like A/images/graemlins/club.gifx/images/graemlins/club.gif, our equity will change significantly on the turn. we'd love to have him bet into us on the turn and raise a turn blank when he has a draw.

if an A or K comes on the turn, we generally won't have to deal with an uncomfortable check-raise, opting to just call down instead.. or raise for a free showdown, folding to a 3-bet.

if he has something like AT, our flop raise may slow him down.. again allowing a turn raise to get the most value once a blank drops. if he folds a 5-outer to our turn raise, we are pretty happy in this medium sized pot (7ish BB's).

[SCfuji]

i overlooked my flop action because i was so focused on the turn. this is interesting and maybe this is part of the problem as to why my flop aggression is too high.

[DMBFan23]

[ QUOTE ]
Call the flop; I'll let you boys chew on that for a while.

Play well and good luck,
Joe Tall

[/ QUOTE ]

ok I dig, but what turn cards do/don't you raise?

[SCfuji]

looks like most clubs or an overcard. id still be stuck on what to do if that Q bzitch trump comes and the villain leads again.

[Shillx]

looks like most clubs or an overcard. id still be stuck on what to do if that Q bzitch trump comes and the villain leads again.

No brainer raise.

Brad