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Notorious G.O.B.
05-23-2005, 03:16 AM
I've been playing five card draw lately on Paradise, and I'd like to hear some comments on the following situations:

Value betting post draw: Say you raise from the button, first in, with a pair. The BB calls, and draws three. After not improving on the draw, what is the worst hand you'd value bet with, assuming the BB checks to you? Kings? Queens? Aces?

Open raising and being reraised: What do you do when you've raise from the cutoff with 10 10, and get popped by the small blind? How about when you raise UTG with KK, and get called in one spot, and popped by the button? JJ, second in, same situation? How about 8's up? I'm used to playing hold'em, but realistically speaking, I think I should be folding more predraw when I get reraised.

Defending against possible bluffs: It seems like I'm folding a lot postdraw when I get bet into. What strategies do you guys use to avoid getting run over? How do you play a pair of aces, when you open raise from the button, the bb calls, draws three, you don't improve, and the BB leads into you after the draw? How about queens? I realize it all depends on the player, of course. How do you play against pat hands in various situations, to protect yourself from being snowed? Most of the time, I fold when someone stands pat, even if I'm getting 7 or 8 to 1, unless I've seen the guy bluffing a lot of pots, or something smells fishy.

Defending Blinds: What kind of standards do you guys use in defending your blinds? I think Caro says to defend with about as good a hand as the raiser will raise with, but it's pretty hard to play 55 against a button who will raise with no hand worse than 55.
Also, how do you play your hands post draw, when the potential stealer leads into you? Say you call the button's raise with 88, he draws three and leads into you after you check. What do you do? What if he drew 1, from the small blind?

Opening requirements: What opening standards do you play by? I believe Caro's minimum are KK UTG, 99 in cutoff, 55 on button, and SB. Weisenburg has it as KK UTG, Jacks in cutoff, 99 with 2 overs on button, and 77 from SB. What kind of compromise do you arrive on? How do you play against limpers? What are your standards for reraising or coldcalling? Do you reraise the cutoff with 7's up, from the button? How about aces?

SB play: What kind of hands do you limp with on the small blind, against limpers? How about heads up against the BB?

Post draw play: How do you play two big pair, when you bet and are raised? How about trips, against a one card draw who limped? One card draw who raised? Let's say you raise with Queens up, and get several customers. How do you play when a 3 card draw bets into you from early position? How about a one card draw? What if someone overcalls?

Thanks for your help, I apologize for the sporadic readability.

DOMIT
05-23-2005, 02:55 PM
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I've been playing five card draw lately on Paradise, and I'd like to hear some comments on the following situations:

Value betting post draw: Say you raise from the button, first in, with a pair. The BB calls, and draws three. After not improving on the draw, what is the worst hand you'd value bet with, assuming the BB checks to you? Kings? Queens? Aces?

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Depends on player .. depends on _my_ position. If I open-raise (O.R.) with AA or KK UTG, I'm going to assume that the BB (unless he's a terrible player) does NOT have less than JJ -- maybe TT. Since we're equal to improve post, if he checks to me, I check behind.. he's not calling unless he improved. If the player is terrible, I'd value bet AA, maybe KK, as I've seen terrible players call down post with QQ, JJ and worse.

If O.R. from the button or SB, I don't value bet much at all, as they put you on a steal as it is and will call much more with the hands that beat you. (As an example, I've seen good players check and then blink, blink, fold after I've drawn 3 and bet post UTG .. I know it's going through their heads: "ok, if he's betting, he's improved to at least KKs-up..so my JJs-up is no good here". But times before I've tried the same tactic on the button, and get called with AA or KK vs those same players.

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Open raising and being reraised: What do you do when you've raise from the cutoff with 10 10, and get popped by the small blind?

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Again, depends on player. Many good players will reraise a O.R. (from any position) with any two pair. Once you're raised, since the ave 2pair hand is JJs-up (and I mostly only raise w/ JJ on the button), pot dictates a call as you'd be getting 6-1 on your call (assuming you're HU).

There are some players that only reraise w/ nothing less than AAs-up; these are the only players that I will actually fold against. (Some may argue that you _do_ have implied odds .. that they will call a bet post if you trip-up and, therefore, you'd be getting 8-1 implied.. however, remember these are passive players that would reraise most of the times with nothing short of trips. I've seen them check-fold post after I bet into them, killing my implied odds.)

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How about when you raise UTG with KK, and get called in one spot, and popped by the button?

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With these odds, you pretty much _have_ to play, although, once again with regards to the player, I won't be betting/calling with less than trips post (based on the draws).

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JJ, second in, same situation?

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Fold JJ EP /images/graemlins/wink.gif

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How about 8's up? I'm used to playing hold'em, but realistically speaking, I think I should be folding more predraw when I get reraised.

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Once again, player dependant.. I've folded small two pair vs a reraise knowing that I'm beat. I'll only call if I think I have the implied odds.. like your situation of O.R., cold call, and reraised by button: assuming the SB and BB fold, you call and the cold-caller calls--which seems to be 99% of the time--you'll then have 10.5-1, you're about 11-1 to fill; I'd call and hope to fill.

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Defending against possible bluffs: It seems like I'm folding a lot postdraw when I get bet into. What strategies do you guys use to avoid getting run over? How do you play a pair of aces, when you open raise from the button, the bb calls, draws three, you don't improve, and the BB leads into you after the draw? How about queens? I realize it all depends on the player, of course.

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If I feel that he's the type of player to value bet AA himself, I'll fold KK or QQ. If he's the type of player that would bet into me unimproved with 99 or less, I call him down (there are players that will bet into a 3-card unimproved constantly).

Against other players.. I use gaming theory.. I end up calling unimproved (if I think that the player will bluff me just every so often) about 1/3 of the time. {Would be interested to hear from others if this is often enough or not.}

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How do you play against pat hands in various situations, to protect yourself from being snowed? Most of the time, I fold when someone stands pat, even if I'm getting 7 or 8 to 1, unless I've seen the guy bluffing a lot of pots, or something smells fishy.

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Player dependant .. notes, notes, notes.

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Defending Blinds: What kind of standards do you guys use in defending your blinds? I think Caro says to defend with about as good a hand as the raiser will raise with, but it's pretty hard to play 55 against a button who will raise with no hand worse than 55.

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Player dependant .. notes, notes, notes... some players will raise my blind everytime--guess I'm too tight /images/graemlins/wink.gif -- these players, I will pretty much reraise with 88s or higher, maybe TTs or higher. I have on occation reraised with absolute shite vs these players. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Also, how do you play your hands post draw, when the potential stealer leads into you? Say you call the button's raise with 88, he draws three and leads into you after you check. What do you do? What if he drew 1, from the small blind?

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Player and situation dependant.. how's the guy running.. has he been doing this everytime.. if you're going to call post with your hand.. why not lead? Depends, depends.. more experience will be your guide on this. Hard to give just a formula, you have to try to read your opponent.

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Opening requirements: What opening standards do you play by? I believe Caro's minimum are KK UTG, 99 in cutoff, 55 on button, and SB. Weisenburg has it as KK UTG, Jacks in cutoff, 99 with 2 overs on button, and 77 from SB. What kind of compromise do you arrive on? How do you play against limpers? What are your standards for reraising or coldcalling? Do you reraise the cutoff with 7's up, from the button? How about aces?

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Holy moley /images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Take notes.. get a feel for the players. I hardly every reraise with AA unless it's a player that I know is on a steal and I know the BB will defend unless I 3-bet.

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SB play: What kind of hands do you limp with on the small blind, against limpers? How about heads up against the BB?

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Limp with any OESD and flush draw.. even one limper, you have the odds.

2 or more limpers, you can limp with any pair. You'll be getting 7-1, which is what you need to draw to trips (then here I pretty much check-call with low trips).

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Post draw play: How do you play two big pair, when you bet and are raised? How about trips, against a one card draw who limped? One card draw who raised? Let's say you raise with Queens up, and get several customers. How do you play when a 3 card draw bets into you from early position? How about a one card draw? What if someone overcalls?

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Take notes.. get a feel for the players. Seriously. Again, no formula.. you just have to judge how the table is, what you feel your image is to them.. if they care about your image (fish raises after drawing one.. he got there, he's not bluffing).. etc. Play, take notes, post specific hands, live and learn /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Thanks for your help, I apologize for the sporadic readability.

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Generic disclaimer.. I'm sure I play tighter than most, so my responses are my personal opinions; however after over 30,000 hands (on Paradise alone), I'm a winning player according to my records, so there's that.

You'll have to find what's the best style for you (and what works for the time.. there are times that I'll go for the steal on the button with a flush draw, and others I'll muck it everytime based on the players in the blinds).

Play, play, notes, notes, post, post /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Good luck!