My GF's psycho-ex (long and bad and dramatic....stressful situation)

[MicroBob]

Hi all -

My parents occasionally read my blog so this isn't going there. Advice or ideas wanted although I have some ideas of where i'm going to go from here I guess.

Sorry this is so freaking long but I'm just venting because I'm a little freaked-out and am just going to do this before I go out and get a drink.
anyone who actually reads through all this may feel free to offer some supportive words which I will look at upon my return.

As stated previously...I'm a bit freaked-out...but am much better now than I was previously.

--------------------------------

My GF has been seperated from her husband for about 2.5 years and I've been seeing her for 2+ years. She was already seperated when we started seeing each other so I didn't steal her away or anything.
Everything was all-right...I was seperated from my ex-wife too for just a few months when we started.
We were both moving on. No biggie.


Her ex is in town and used to call my GF quite a bit. He was not taking their seperation very well although he wasn't getting TOO psycho about it. Just spurts (probably after he had been drinking) where he would call 5-10 times or something.... usually not leaving a message (because he evidently hates leaving messages for some reason).

My GF wants to get divorced but was hoping they could do it amicably and she thought that just letting it play out a bit would help him realize that she's not really his wife anymore and that his dreams of getting back together just weren't going to happen.
So she has let it drag on and on without filing the papers.

My ex and I were equally lazy about it for a different purpose. We just hadn't gotten around to it. Eventually she filed the papers and I signed them and we were fine. We still have friendly talks on the phone occasionally. We used to fight of course...but not THAT bad. It was a very amicable divorce when we finally got around to doing it (which we did in Jan and Feb).


Okay - so....the GF told her ex on voice-mail I think a couple months ago, "Ummm...are you ready to talk about the divorce at some point?" and he didn't call her back.
He hadn't been calling her for quite awhile which she took as a good sign (or at least appreciated).
An occasional call without a message every few weeks or so maybe. That was about it.


He asked her several months ago if she was seeing anyone and she said that she was indeed dating somebody so he already kinda knew about that.


Okay - in january or so he's pounding on her door and bawling or something and being all weird. Showed up out fo the blue without calling and she was VERY surprised.
As I recall, she didn't let him in. Just tried to calm him down and eventually got him to leave.
GF is 28 and her 20-year-old brother lives with her btw.

When the brother came over to live with them is when some of their problems as a couple started.
Anyway, the brother is a REALLY great kid (straight-A's in college even though his english is still improving). He likes me a lot...and hates his GF's ex.
Actually...every single one of my GF's friends really dis-liked this guy when she was seeing him. Her parents eventually warmed-up to him though.

Okay - so in that situation in january she gets him to leave.

Fast-forward to last night. I talked with my GF after she was done with work today and she tells me that the ex came over last night. He still had a key to their old house and just walked right in!! Brother thought it was someone breaking-in at first then was like, "What the hell are you doing?"
ex is really determined to straighten whatever out with her.

This is about 11:30pm I think (I had gotten a 1-ring hang-up at about the same time...which might have been him somewhere in there).
GF is a nurse and works on weekends from 7a-7p. Thus this is REALLY late for her and she would like to get some sleep.
But he's kind of hysterical and dramatic and it's a situation she has to deal with.


So...he tells her that he knows ALL ABOUT this "Bob" guy.
He even has pictures of us together!!!!
We don't know if the pics were his or were from a P.I.

I guess there were more pics...but the only ones that he showed her included us at a couple of restaurants outdoors in my general neighborhood. And also at a minor-league baseball game both inside and outside the park.

The game we went to was in early-mid April...so he's had this pics for awhile I suppose. The dinners that he had pics of would have been from about the same time as I recall.

She's kind of creeped out that he has pictures of us.

Then he mentions that he knows that she went with me to Florida and to New Orleans for her birthday.
In Florida we went to see my parents (which he probably didn't know) and we did indeed go to New Orleans for her birthday.

He seemed to know a couple other things too but that's all I recall right now.

BTW - he's about 6'3" or so. I'm a whopping 5'6".


Okay - so GF tells me about the situation last night. But it ended with him pretty much saying, "You want a divorce? Okay...I can let you have the divorce. Just send me the papers and we'll end it. I'm ready to give you the divorce now."


He left at 1 a.m. or so. Brother was ready to call the cops at some point but it didn't get QUITE that bad.
He was also ready to call the cops a few months earlier when he was banging on their door.


Some other background - GF really goes into a shell and is quiet during stressful situations. So it was probably just a situation of him talking and her nodding I imagine.

Sometime in there she might say something like, "Yes....I care deeply for you...but it's not worth it to try to get back together. It's not going to happen." She doesn't seem to think that all the ex might hear is "I care deeply for you."
I don't know that she would have said this last night though. Just her general approach I believe.


Brother is leaving tomorrow to go to Clemson and then New Orleans for a summer research program. GF has pretty much been his mom in all that time so she is already having seperation issues. And he obviously won't be there anymore to threaten to call the cops (or actually do it if necessary..he's a smart kid) if something were to happen in the future.


Again - GF thought it was pretty much over because he finally consented to the divorce.
She went to work today and that helped get her mind off of the issue.

Couple hours after I talk to her about this I get a phone-call.
Hoo-ray!! It's her ex whom I n have never spoken to before.
Naturally he has my number....and the phone just shows 'private-number' so I don't have is.
Oh goodie.
He's got nice little red-neck twang going on and is rather confrontational in his tone with me over the phone.

He wants to talk about "your girlfriend. Teresa. I want you to know the truth. You know she's married don't you?"
I tell him that I don't think it's my place to talk about it and I don't admit to already knowing about this.
Anyway, eventually I hang-up on him. I try calling GF but get her voice-mail.

He calls me back in 5-10 minutes or so and says that he doesn't like being hung-up on.
I tell him I don't think we have anything to talk about.
He's pretty agitated..probably drinking...whatever.

Anyway, he insists on asking me if I knew she was married and I say yes...I know she has a husband that she's seperated from.
He says, "Oh..we're not seperated."
"Well you no longer live together so that's just what I called it."

He goes on about how he knows we went on a cruise together (she came with me on the PPM cruise) and that he knows we went to Florida and New Orleans together on her birthday when she should have been with him.
whatever.

Conversation lasts about 5 minutes I think. I'm trying to get out of it.
He has all these, "How would you feel?" questions which I don't really answer.

Okay - final couple minutes he goes on about how she's been seeing him on the side. He helped her pick the luggage for the cruise that she went on with me because she told him that she was going on a cruise with a friend who was getting married.
Night before the cruise she was in his bed 'f'cking' him all night long and then she left with me.
He wants me to know the truth. blah blah blah.
How she was seeing him and saying how she wants to get back together and she loves him and then would see me behind his back.
All these incidents.

Well...this admittedly rattled me.
big time.


Eventually TELL HIM that I'm going to go (because he doesn't like to be hung-up on..whatever) and eventually get a hold of GF.
We talk and I FREAKING KNOW that this guy is just a bit psycho and is throwing a hail-mary to try to ruin his ex's thing with me.
But it was still an awkward conversation nonetheless.
I explain that if she really had been seeing him just tell me so we can work it out or whatever.
Obviously she admits to none of it and reassures me. And I believe her...partly because it's ridiculous...and partly because I'm just gullible.

But I'm insecure just like the next guy and partly paranoid I suppose.
I think it's something we can overcome...but something like this IS a pain in the ass because there's no REAL WAY I could know.


Anyway...the fact that he knew about the cruise surprised her because that wasn't one of the things he mentioned before.

Since he just walked into their house last night with the leftover key she has suspicions that he had been there before...got on her computer...and looked through her e-mails.
There is no PI work that would have determined that her good friend really WAS getting married (he mentioned the friend, Lisa, by name).

And if he was there looking through all her e-mails and/or credit-card crap he could have figured out that she really did buy some luggage before the cruise and that her friend was getting married, etc etc.

I suspect it might be a combination of hiring a PI and/or him breaking in and getting on her e-mail.
Now at her place (and on the computer) she has various pics of us on the cruise and in Florida and New Orleans.

Me and GF talked for an hour or so and she'll be coming over tomorrow after she drops her brother off at the airport.
I'm in need of a drink to chill out a bit.
Arrgh.

I don't want to be suspicious of my GF. And I never had been before. So I'm just hoping and assuming that these ridiculous paranoid thoughts will cool out given time.

Oh yeah...I'm going to the WSOP for 3 weeks from late june to mid-july. So the paranoid part of me keeps that in mind to.


I don't think he's going to call me again..and I don't think he's going to harass her anymore. But I don't know the guy and he did sound pretty upset.
He's a big guy.

I think she and I are still strong...perhaps this awkwardnesss will make us stronger.
I explained to her that I was just being paranoid and stupid and I apologized and she was very forgiving and understanding given the circumstances.

Okay...I'm done ranting for now I guess. I'm off to go drinking.

[BusterStacks]

"Three important rules for breaking up
Don’t put off breaking up when you know you want to
Prolonging the situation only makes it worse
Tell him honestly, simply, kindly, but firmly
Don’t make a big production
Don’t make up an elaborate story
This will help you avoid a big tear jerking scene
If you wanna date other people say so
Be prepared for the boy to feel hurt and rejected
Even if you’ve gone together for only a short time,
And haven’t been too serious,
There’s still a feeling of rejection
When someone says she preferres the company of others
To your exclusive company,
But if you’re honest, and direct,
And avoid making a flowery emotional speech when you brake the news,
The boy will respect you for your frankness,
And honestly he’ll apeciate the kind of straight foward manner
In which you told him your decision
Unless he’s a real jerk or a cry baby you will remain friends"

--Nada Surf "Popular"

[tbach24]

Wow, that's messed up. Hope everything turns out alright.

[bump]

a few thoughts...

no matter what the next month or so is going to be tough on your relationship. It seems reading like this that you don't know the whole story. But it also seems possible that the ex hired a PI and broke into her house.

Tell your gf to HAVE HER LOCKS CHANGED IMMEDIATELY. Have her do this tomorrow. She probably won't want to do this so offer to do it yourself. Her safety is most important (although him harming her is not probable it should still be your biggest concern,) especially with her bro leaving.

Second, continue to reassure her (in an NON ACCUSATORY manner) that whatever has happened you can work through.

You two obviously need to have a serious talk, you should probably tell her that if she has NO plans of getting back together then she should file for divorce, it is time.

Is there any chance she can come to the WSOP with you? That would probably be best.

Good luck

[[censored]]

Well in some ways this is what comes with dating a married girl. Seperated or not. There are reasons why people put off getting a divorce, usually emotional ones.

Best bet your ex still had or has an emotional attachment to him that caused her to still want to be friends are talk to him or what not. Most likely there were times when he was being really nice and caring inbetween the times when he was being a phsycho. She may have talked with him during these times.

My advice would be to not date someone who is still legally married but I doubt that is going to happen.

If he calls you or contacts you, do not shy away from talking with him. He wants to assert sometype of dominance over you. Be direct without esculation. Yes you know she is still married and you know that relationship ended for a reason. Yes you spend time with her and it is none of his business. Do not get into some high school level confrontation in which a fight may occur. If he threatens you call the police. If he starts calling tell him to stop, if he doesn't file a complaint for harassment. If he comes to your house...you get the idea. Whatever you do, do not lie to him as that will serve to allow him to continue these games by proving you wrong.

[Lawrence Ng]

Hi Bob,

First off, breathe....

From the way your last email went, you seem like you are extremely tense and not just a little paranoid, but very paranoid.

Until proven so, you need to keep trusting your GF. If you start second guessing her at a time like this, it will only make things worse. I know things are confusing for you right now, but she needs your support.

Of course you need to talk to her, but stay rational and objective. I know it's going to be hard Bob, but you need to stay calm and listen to her side before making any judgements.

As for Mr. Pussyman 6 ft 3, he definitely has some issues however I feel his method here is pure intimidation.

Try not to get too emotional here Bob. It will blind you.

Lawrence

[JohnnyHumongous]

For a variety of reasons I would walk away from the whole mess and never look back. But that's just how I operate. What are you getting out of the deal right now? You are getting a heap of stress, phonecalls from a nutjob and now you have to be suspicious of your girl left and right because of what that guy said about banging your broad. You didn't ask for any of that and you don't deserve it. You probably won't leave her but that's just what I would do. I don't have time to be suspicious of my woman and there are truly a million other fish in the sea.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]

Until proven so, you need to keep trusting your GF.

[/ QUOTE ]

(i'm back after my 3 gin and tonics)

this is good advice. thank you. something I am realizing too obviously.

I don't think she's been with him....but it's just there in my head now.

[MicroBob]

yes there are...and i understand your point.

but this guy really wasn't much of an issue until this weekend.

before we would just joke about him and I helped her through some of it.
Otherwise we have been terrific.
Going out together in town is always fun and we never fight and we are really close.
going out together out of town (like on the PPM cruise) is even more fun.


I'm taking the approach that this will, in fact, make us stronger.
It's not really her fault that she had bad taste in men previously (and has GREAT taste now I might add).

It's her ex that's doing this stuff.
And the reason he's doing it is in hopes that it will cause more serious problems with me and her.


We have been planning on moving out of town together for awhile now...and it's really just about her getting her house fixed-up so that she can sell it.
This may be the impetus to get us moving.

[WSUchica]

I agree with Lawrence, I think you should trust your GF, you have been together for long enough that she should have gained your trust and IMO it seems as if the ex is making some last attempts to win back his lady. If I were the GF in that situation and knew you suspected me of cheating (is this the correct word to be using when talking about her husband?? Very mixed up situation!) I would be second guessing how close we really were, so I think that while you should definetly have a talk with her about getting the divorce finalized and the phone conversations...I wouldn't accuse her of being with her ex.

Good Luck, and if the phone calls and harassment continues you shouldn't hesitate to pursue some kind of restraining order...for both your GF AND you.

[slickpoppa]

This guy needs a call from Mark Knofler: link (http://www.phonelosers.org/sound/Mark_Knofler_01_Amanda_White.mp3)

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]

Tell your gf to HAVE HER LOCKS CHANGED IMMEDIATELY

[/ QUOTE ]


I neglected to mention that evidently in his whole huffy-show he left his key at her place accidentally which she is obviously not giving back.
She doesn't think he would have been sharp enough to make a copy but she is changing the locks. It was her idea first.

She also is changing the code on their house-alarm.
She had never bothered changing it previously because she never suspected he might do something like this.


[ QUOTE ]
continue to reassure her (in an NON ACCUSATORY manner) that whatever has happened you can work through.

[/ QUOTE ]


already done...and will continue to happen.
I said that I think we'll be okay and in a couple months or so this will probably be a non-issue for us.
I also said that I suspect it will make us stronger.
All the nice stuff....in-between the stupid paranoia.


[ QUOTE ]
You two obviously need to have a serious talk, you should probably tell her that if she has NO plans of getting back together then she should file for divorce, it is time.

[/ QUOTE ]



Now that he has given his consent she says she is doing it Monday or Tuesday.
She did this without me telling her that 'it is time'. She completely agrees.



[ QUOTE ]

Is there any chance she can come to the WSOP with you? That would probably be best.

[/ QUOTE ]



That would be freaking wonderful. And I hoped I could get her to come.
but she came with me to Mexico on the PPM at the end of March...and she came with me to Florida and New Orleans for 10 days or so at the end of May.
Her bills aren't going to pay for themselves and she just started her new job at a different hospital so she can't exactly be leaving right now.

[Stuey]

[ QUOTE ]
He's a big guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know you and this is none of my business. But this pisses me off. Who gives a [censored] how big he is. He is a [censored] [censored]. And people have been letting him get away with [censored] for to dam [censored] long.

If you like this chick stand up for her. If you are afraid of this guy think how she feels. You don't have to beat him up you just have to stand up to him. If he turns it physical do your best. Take your licks like a man. You will surprise him and yourself.

Man I hate bullies. Kick his [censored] ass.

[MicroBob]

I would love too.
But I'm a lover, not a fighter.
And I have my doubts whether that would solve anything. It could likely just exaserbate the situation.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
"Three important rules for breaking up
Don’t put off breaking up when you know you want to
Prolonging the situation only makes it worse
Tell him honestly, simply, kindly, but firmly
Don’t make a big production
Don’t make up an elaborate story
This will help you avoid a big tear jerking scene
If you wanna date other people say so
Be prepared for the boy to feel hurt and rejected
Even if you’ve gone together for only a short time,
And haven’t been too serious,
There’s still a feeling of rejection
When someone says she preferres the company of others
To your exclusive company,
But if you’re honest, and direct,
And avoid making a flowery emotional speech when you brake the news,
The boy will respect you for your frankness,
And honestly he’ll apeciate the kind of straight foward manner
In which you told him your decision
Unless he’s a real jerk or a cry baby you will remain friends"

--Nada Surf "Popular"

[/ QUOTE ]


my advice to you (micro) is that gay men tend to be better at this type of situation than i am....but you have nothing to worry about. have her get the papers signed and then have a restraining order put on his ass. as a fellow pro poker player, the last thing you need is psychological unease....especially at wsop time.

[Stuey]

Yah don't look for a fight but be ready to if he starts it. Like man if you want to hang up on some goofy talking red neck then do it. If he wants to come over and kick your ass for it. Then it is better he is coming for you than hitting the girl. Which is what these types like to do.

I would move the GF in my house and then if he wants trouble he knows where to find it. 99% of these jerkoffs are all talk and even if he does kick your ass very unlikely he will kill you. Your going to feel good standing up to him win or lose. I just get mad as guys like this have been trying to pick on me my whole life. I learned to stand up to them and they don't like it! I rarely win the fight but they always know they been in one. If no one stands up to him he will keep picking on people he thinks are to scared to do anything.

[vanirra rice]

Confucius say: Stop committing adultery.

[MicroBob]

And to be clear...he didn't directly threaten me or anything.
He just had a threatening tone.
Same when he went to her place.
she didn't think he was going to hit her...just that he was pretty dramatic and it was very stressful.

She's super-stressed about this too and has all this guilt about the problem she has caused me.
I explained that she tried to get him to agree to the divorce the best method she knew how. She truly thought he would get over it after awhile...maybe date someone else...and then be agreeable.

So she went the direction she thought was best.
Who knows...maybe if she had insisted and persisted on the divorce he would have behaved even worse?
He knew very well that she wanted to get divorced. He just said, "I'm not divorcing because I think we can work it out." and she said "Nope" and then hoped he would eventually get a clue.

Anyway,
We have agreed that one more incident will be 'restraining-order' time.
Orignally after last night we didn't think it would be necessary since they ended the conversation with him agreeing to the divorce and then finally leaving when the brother basically said, "she has to work tomorrow. you need to leave or i'll call the cops."
he left without incident.
just all dramatic and crap before he finally calmed-down some.


btw - her brother isn't exactly king kong. Very quiet spoken. About 5-8 or 5-9 and maybe 140 pounds soaking-wet.

So maybe you're right. If HE can stand-up to this maybe I can too.
I don't want it to be all confrontational and get even more ugly though.

He made his "I'm still f'cking her" play and I'm hoping that's it.



BTW - after my drinks I do feel better and have hopes for us doing just dandy through all of this.
Calming down I guess.
If I learn that the ex really is truthful then we end it and I move from there. I completely agree there are plenty of fish in the dating pool....but I most certainly should not break-up with her because of this because we really do have somethig special going and are pretty damn crazy about each other.


FWIW - I believe I mentioned that she and I virtually NEVER fight...which is really unusual for me and my generally antagonistical nature.
I think she helps me be an even better person and vice-versa. We add to each others' strengths iow.

So we're definitely going to work this out.
We had our long talk on the phone tonight and I don't want it to be the focal point of EVERYTHING we do together.

Anyway, I have hopes that we'll be just fine...and if not then I'm such a wacky-romantic that I know I'll eventually find grand love again.

[MicroBob]

Also - I should say that I'm not entirely surprised...but the support here in this thread has been quite helpful so I thank you.

Obviously I was a bit shaky tonight and didn't really need that kind of adrenalaine kick.
But venting to you strangers out in 2+2-land has proved most therapeutic.

[bholdr]

cops? time for cops.

[Stuey]

GL hope everything works out for you. Don't take no [censored] though. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[MicroBob]

we have decided to bring in the cops at the next 'incident' if there is one.

he has agreed to the divorce so that is getting started next week.
he never threatened me or her...and we don't KNOW whether he broke into her place.

so....the very next one will be police time.


She is getting the locks changed even though he left the key...and is also changing her various passwords.


we believe it is a combination of PI (the photos having her tailed) AND him breaking in and getting on her computer or somehow getting the password (although he is less computer knowledgeable than I am).

anyway...Yes...next incident will be cop-time.

[justin D]

[ QUOTE ]
We have been planning on moving out of town together for awhile now...and it's really just about her getting her house fixed-up so that she can sell it.
This may be the impetus to get us moving.


[/ QUOTE ]

Moving will do the both of you alot of good. A fresh start together would do wonders. As far as employment goes, she can get a job at any hospital in the country, and well...you work in your underwear.

[bump]

[ QUOTE ]

Moving will do the both of you alot of good. A fresh start together would do wonders.

[/ QUOTE ]

[thatpfunk]

Great song. I just realized I don't have it on my computer and promptly downloaded it...

For Bob: Good luck with everything. You're a smart guy, you'll figure out the best line of action. Think about things rationally and cooly and it will work out.

[Badboyy]

[ QUOTE ]
For a variety of reasons I would walk away from the whole mess and never look back. But that's just how I operate. What are you getting out of the deal right now? You are getting a heap of stress, phonecalls from a nutjob and now you have to be suspicious of your girl left and right because of what that guy said about banging your broad. You didn't ask for any of that and you don't deserve it. You probably won't leave her but that's just what I would do. I don't have time to be suspicious of my woman and there are truly a million other fish in the sea.

[/ QUOTE ]

best advice ever.

Reading the OP this exactly what i was thinking but didnt want to come off the wrong way with this advice. But this man is right on.
Also, I honestly would not blow off the suspicion of them being together , nutjob or not girls cheat... a lot.

[bernie]

First off, don't date women who are seperated. Until they are actually divorced, I wouldn't buy her anything, or take her anywhere. Bang 'em, but don't literally date them.

I learned this the hard way. I could've posted this same exact story back when it happened to me.

I had a boulder go through my van windshield. I had a tire loosened on my van that came off on the freeway at 50 mph. I was stalked, much like how you were. Banging on the door, phone calls, hollering outside at us, violated protection orders, moving into hiding, on and on and on the whole friggin' bullshit nine yards of it. Great thing about my experience? She went back to him after all was said and done. How about that?

What I was so blind to see during that that I realized later is...the g/f has some serious issues. As did I for staying in that situation for as long as I did or even just being in the situation.

There are so many familiar big ass red flags in your post about her. Not little banners, BIG ASS RED FLAGS! At this time, unless you really like lots of BS drama in your life, it isn't worth it. Flat out. Don't you deserve better than this situation? Say in a few months it may be smoothed out, then maybe give it a shot with her. It's not your battle to go through. 2.5 years and she still hasn't filed? Yeah, she's reaaal serious about it. Gimme a break. And no, this isn't different. She's not different than anyone else's chick who's been in this situation. So don't even go there.

[ QUOTE ]
I think she and I are still strong...perhaps this awkwardnesss will make us stronger.


[/ QUOTE ]

Get your head on str8. This will not make it stronger. It's not awkwardness. God, there's a buzzword for denial of the situation. It's a dangerous and volatile situation.

Doubt you'll listen to any of that. I wouldn't have back when I went through it. Looking back, I wished someone had told me and I did listen.

Again, I learned the hard way.

b

[MicroBob]

me and my ex also stalled for a 2+ years to get it finalized and we both had long since agreed to do it. we were just lazy.


sorry your situation had turned out so badly.

it strikes me as highly unlikely she would go back to this guy.
even if she and I don't work out for whatever reason I doubt that he would be the guy she would go to.


otherwise, thanks for your input.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Until proven so, you need to keep trusting your GF. If you start second guessing her at a time like this, it will only make things worse. I know things are confusing for you right now, but she needs your support.

[/ QUOTE ]

She's had 2 years and is no farther along than when it started. It's put up or leave time.

[ QUOTE ]
As for Mr. Pussyman 6 ft 3, he definitely has some issues however

[/ QUOTE ]

So does the g/f.

[ QUOTE ]
I know it's going to be hard Bob, but you need to stay calm and listen to her side before making any judgements

[/ QUOTE ]

He needs the full story, not just her side to make any judgment.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
For a variety of reasons I would walk away from the whole mess and never look back. But that's just how I operate. What are you getting out of the deal right now? You are getting a heap of stress, phonecalls from a nutjob and now you have to be suspicious of your girl left and right because of what that guy said about banging your broad. You didn't ask for any of that and you don't deserve it. You probably won't leave her but that's just what I would do. I don't have time to be suspicious of my woman and there are truly a million other fish in the sea.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sentiments exactly.

Fantastic post!

b

[sublime]

Again, I learned the hard way

i could copy and paste what you wrote and it would matach what i went thru.

of course, not all women who date whackos, are themselves whacko.

good luck with this stuff bob

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He's a big guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know you and this is none of my business. But this pisses me off. Who gives a [censored] how big he is. He is a [censored] [censored]. And people have been letting him get away with [censored] for to dam [censored] long.

If you like this chick stand up for her. If you are afraid of this guy think how she feels. You don't have to beat him up you just have to stand up to him. If he turns it physical do your best. Take your licks like a man. You will surprise him and yourself.

Man I hate bullies. Kick his [censored] ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

About the worst thing he could do is this.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
me and my ex also stalled for a 2+ years to get it finalized and we both had long since agreed to do it. we were just lazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do not compare your divorce situation with this one. It's not the same or even in the same ballpark.

[ QUOTE ]
sorry your situation had turned out so badly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Badly? It turned out great. Im not with her anymore and I realized later on just how lucky I was to get away. I was in as deep and as blinded as you are right now. How good is your situation? Take a good look at your own post and really look at what you're putting up with. Are you that co-dependant? Do you really feel that much a need to rescue someone?

[ QUOTE ]
it strikes me as highly unlikely she would go back to this guy.
even if she and I don't work out for whatever reason I doubt that he would be the guy she would go to.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I thought the exact same thing. Did you read what I went through? Read it again. Protection orders, by her against him, moving to hide from him, etc. etc.

Fact is, it doesn't matter. It's a bad situation.

But let me guess, your situation is different, right?

Wrong.

It's not necesarily you trusting her. It's trusting the situation. If this week goes by, you said they're filing this week, and the divorce isn't signed and on its way, it's good-bye time.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Again, I learned the hard way

i could copy and paste what you wrote and it would matach what i went thru.

of course, not all women who date whackos, are themselves whacko.

good luck with this stuff bob

[/ QUOTE ]

If the woman is really that great, she will seek you out after all her baggage is cleared up. It's her problem. You can give support without being in the situation. That said, don't wait for her.

b

[MicroBob]

while i'm not going to give her an ultimatum like that I do think she'll file this week.
Previously she said she just wanted this guy to agree to it so that there would be no fight involved. She is extremely non-confrontational.
Now that he has agreed she said she'll get to do that this week. It's not taking any convincing from me.


I know it sounds ridiculous to say my situation is different.
I don't know...maybe it's the same and she's really unhealthy.

I've had a couple of semi-psycho girls before somewhere around college and post-college and recognized the problem signs.
But I don't think it would be right to break-up with her just because her psycho-ex suddenly is trying to create difficulties.

Breaking up with her is exactly what HE would want me to do.

She hasn't been talking to him. Completely avoiding him in fact...for quite some time.
I know that he hasn't been calling as much because her cell-phone used to buzz a couple times a night during the times when he was contacting her.
She would look at the phone and put it down...and I would ask if it was him and she would nod and usually wouldn't want to talk about it.
Of late, the only time the phone would buzz would be when her mom or borther would call.


Anyway, despite whatever evidence I can present...all I can go on are my gut-instincts that this guy is a tool who got drunk, etc and tried to rattle me (it worked).


At first he was telling me that my GF is married and clearly didn't think that I knew that. It was AFTER I told him that I knew about her ex and AFTER he could tell that I wasn't shocked or bothered by that knowledge that he eventually went into all the "how much she's been f'cking me" routine.



He's shown-up at her door-step twice...and he called me twice in one night.
There have beenn no violence threats nor any rocks through windows.

I do understand that the way this is going that could be a possibility for all we know. But the fact that it isn't happening means we might not get there (hoping of course).



Back to the divorce-delay thing....her complete lack of confrontationalness is mostly to blame. She just hates any and all confrontation and avoids it...thus her 'wait until he's okay with it' strategy.


I agree she has issues.
So do I.
So does everyone.

But her issues aren't enough for me to leave her currently.
His issues are the obstacle here as far as I can tell.



Is it possible she's been sleeping with him on the side?
Sure...it's possible. But I still am giving her the benefit of the doubt currently.
I don't keep a 24-hour watch on her so how the hell do I really know?

She calls after a 14-hour shift at work and says she's too tired to swing by and get a drink. She's a nurse at a hospital...so it could also mean that she watched some patient die whom she had been looking after for a couple of weeks. Kind of stressful obviously.
Is she lying to me about heading home and going to bed and instead going over to his place and f'cking his brains out?
Is she lying to me about having dinner with her brother?

It's possible. But I wasn't paranoid about that possibility before and I don't think that this psycho-ex's drunken-blabbering deserves THAT much credit that I should just end it just because HE called me on ONE night and was kind of nuts.


Anyway...I agree that it's time for the divorce. As does she. She's kind of excited (in-between her shut-out-the-world method of dealing with stress) to go get the papers now and get that going. And she was saying that before he called me (while she was telling me about his visit last night).

She's so incredibly sorry that dating her has put me into this situation...which really isn't THAT horrible a situation in that he hasn't physically threatened me or anything. Just a couple of annoying drunken calls.


Anyway....thanks to everyone for their support so far.
It really is quite helpful as I mentioned earlier.

I sure wish I could freaking go to sleep....but my sleep schedule of late has been 5a-1p or so...and today we had a soccer game so I came home and napped after that from 5p-8p or so ...before this whole drama began.
So even with the alcohol it looks like i'm up for a little while.

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]

Confucius say: Stop committing adultery.

[/ QUOTE ]

First off, if you are Asian or more specific Chinese - you are being a disgrace and a joke.

If you aren't Asian, you are doing a horrible job trying to pretend to be one.

Lawrence

[theredpill5]

I haven't read any responses partly because I don't want to be influenced by them. If I was you, I'd end it with this crazy GF of yours.

This chick likes drama obviously. She knows what she is doing. She is one messed up girl, man. You need to come to grips with this. She obviously doesn't mind having her husband still in her life or he wouldn't still have a key that worked to her apartment and he wouldn't still have her phone number. If I was you, I'd pissed because you are getting [censored] on left and right.

End it with her, as soon as possible and the chick really doesn't even deserve a phone call ending it. Just end it and never talk to her again. Go find a normal girl. Do it man. You don't know what people are capable of. This guy may just lose it. Also, change your phone number and if you can move to another apartment, I would do that , too. This is scarey situation that is nearly at boiling point.

The chick likes drama that is for sure or she wouldn't have all this [censored] in her life. You are totally letting her off the hook as she was some innocent victim. She isn't. Later.

[theredpill5]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Until proven so, you need to keep trusting your GF.

[/ QUOTE ]

(i'm back after my 3 gin and tonics)

this is good advice. thank you. something I am realizing too obviously.

I don't think she's been with him....but it's just there in my head now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, just read the responses. This is not good advice. Get out of this [censored] !!

I'm just going to say this. If you stay with this girl and stay involved this crap, you deserve whatever you get, man.

[MicroBob]

so if i gave you a call and said that I had been sleeping with your GF you would just end it with her?

[daveymck]

My GF was married and still living with her husband when I met her, fortunatley he was never psycho with me but was with her, once they split he wouldnt stop hassling her so much so she had to move out of the house (he had moved out at this point) and her and the two kids were sharing one bedroom at her mams.

Even though he had wanted to end it this was how he reacted probably cos she found someone so quickly. They have been through the divorce etc etc but even 8 years later he is still part of the relationship, he has had us to court over access rights a number of times including a month ago and heis still a often discussed topic and I say to her when stuff happens he still has his hooks in her and he can turn them whenver he wants to cause her pain and grief (he was mentally abusive to her).

However we are quite strong and have a decent life together, but ex husband hassles have contributed to additional ups and downs that any relationship has.

In short if you care enough stay work together as a couple, get her divorced if he gives more grief look at restraining orders but know that this wont be somthing just switched off overnight I suspect this will be the first part of an ongoing saga and you have to be ready to deal with that if the relationship is going to succeed. If there are no kids involved then is should be more of a clean break if not then he will be even more of a part of your relationship with her.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Back to the divorce-delay thing....her complete lack of confrontationalness is mostly to blame. She just hates any and all confrontation and avoids it...thus her 'wait until he's okay with it' strategy

[/ QUOTE ]

She sounds like a very strong woman.

[ QUOTE ]
I've had a couple of semi-psycho girls before somewhere around college and post-college and recognized the problem signs.

[/ QUOTE ]

They had husbands or ex boyfriends doing this type of stuff to them also? Usually it only takes once to learn this lesson.

[ QUOTE ]
I agree she has issues.
So do I.
So does everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look out for yourself first. Her, his and your issues are not the same.

[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible she's been sleeping with him on the side?
Sure...it's possible. But I still am giving her the benefit of the doubt currently.
I don't keep a 24-hour watch on her so how the hell do I really know?

She calls after a 14-hour shift at work and says she's too tired to swing by and get a drink. She's a nurse at a hospital...so it could also mean that she watched some patient die whom she had been looking after for a couple of weeks. Kind of stressful obviously.
Is she lying to me about heading home and going to bed and instead going over to his place and f'cking his brains out?
Is she lying to me about having dinner with her brother?


[/ QUOTE ]

I purposely left out this factor because it doesn't make a difference given all the other stuff presented. This would be the least of my worries at this point. It might be the topper, but not the meat of the situation. This only would make it easier to leave is all.

[ QUOTE ]
She's kind of excited (in-between her shut-out-the-world method of dealing with stress) to go get the papers now and get that going. And she was saying that before he called me (while she was telling me about his visit last night).


[/ QUOTE ]

I got this phone call also. I was on vacation at a lake when I got the call. In fact, they were in the process of filling in the paperwork at her dinner table when I talked to her.

[ QUOTE ]
which really isn't THAT horrible a situation in that he hasn't physically threatened me or anything. Just a couple of annoying drunken calls.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but there's alot more going on here in this situation as a whole than just a couple annoying drunken calls. Hopefully this is just the alcohol causing you to downplay this situation in this fashion. This is not something to be taken lightly.

Good luck.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't read any responses partly because I don't want to be influenced by them. If I was you, I'd end it with this crazy GF of yours.

This chick likes drama obviously. She knows what she is doing. She is one messed up girl, man. You need to come to grips with this. She obviously doesn't mind having her husband still in her life or he wouldn't still have a key that worked to her apartment and he wouldn't still have her phone number. If I was you, I'd pissed because you are getting [censored] on left and right.

End it with her, as soon as possible and the chick really doesn't even deserve a phone call ending it. Just end it and never talk to her again. Go find a normal girl. Do it man. You don't know what people are capable of. This guy may just lose it. Also, change your phone number and if you can move to another apartment, I would do that , too. This is scarey situation that is nearly at boiling point.

The chick likes drama that is for sure or she wouldn't have all this [censored] in her life. You are totally letting her off the hook as she was some innocent victim. She isn't. Later.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

Feel free to peruse the OP and my conversation above.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
so if i gave you a call and said that I had been sleeping with your GF you would just end it with her?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not the only issue here. That's the least of your problems.

b

[theredpill5]

[ QUOTE ]
so if i gave you a call and said that I had been sleeping with your GF you would just end it with her?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are in such denial, man. I know why though. You really like this girl. You are starting to talking about cops getting involved. This guys is stalking both of you and taking pictures. Dude, if I were you, I would moving to another apartment on the other side of the city by next week at the latest and not telling this stupid bitch where I was going. I'm not joking. The guy who said that you don't deserve all this was right, but if you continue involved in this [censored], then yeah you deserve whatever you get. You may get lucky and nothing happens or......

She isn't worth it. Just go find someone else. The guy who said just cut all ties and move away was right. Listen to him.

[MicroBob]

yes...this sounds more like this guy.

except she was more secretive about telling him she was seeing somebody because she just didn't want to hurt him.
also partly because she stopped talking to him for the most part anyway.

that eventually pushed him to the point of calling me since he found out at some point.
But she just didn't want to deal with the drama of him freaking about her seeing somebody so she didn't tell him.

And when she did she admitted to it when she thought he was cool.

But he had been a non-issue to me....and was pretty much out of her mind too.
Then he shows up suddenly and she has to deal with it again...and then she doesn't hear from him for another couple of months.
So it's a REAL on-again, off-again situation that comes up from time to time but seems to be a bit worse now.

She is REALLY REALLY freaked that he has pics of us out and about.
She was telling a long-time co-worker/friend about what happened to her when he went to her place and they couldn't believe he was behaving THAT badly.
Obviously they don't even know the update that he called me too.

She has no kids and neither do I so that is obviously helpful.
We had talked on several occasions on having 1 or 2 at some point.

Anyway, there's just her brother....and her rather wacky Mom who is a bit of an issue as well (we have debates as to which of our mom's is most nuts...I have determined it is a tie).




Anyway....thanks for reassuring me that it's not exactly entirely HER fault that this guy is just wacky.

Glad to hear that your relationship has worked out well.



Again - to all those who think I need to run-away FAST. I understand where you're coming from.
But please don't confuse HIS psycho-ness with HER.


Yes, she has issues....so do I.
The fact that her ex tried to freak me out tonight shouldn't be the deciding factor here.


I'll continue to think about things though.

But right now she's as upset as I am...probably worse.
These things do NOT happen often and she is hardly an attention-whore.
If anything...I'm the super-attention whore (please note my posting frequency as well as non-stop talking in-person. voted Most Talkative in my H.S. class and it hasn't stopped in the years since....I definitely have some weird issues).


Anyway, I don't think it's too silly to want to give her a bit of support.
But again, we'll see what happens and I'll continue to think about things.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for reassuring me that it's not exactly entirely HER fault that this guy is just wacky.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is her fault for waiting 2 years while you were dating to finally try for the divorce. Her excuse for waiting is lame. The excuse alone is a big red flag.

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, she has issues....so do I.
The fact that her ex tried to freak me out tonight shouldn't be the deciding factor here.


[/ QUOTE ]

How about all the other crap. How much stuff do you need?

[ QUOTE ]
I understand where you're coming from.
But please don't confuse HIS psycho-ness with HER.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you really do understand it. You're responses would be much different if you did. You're responding, textbook, the way everyone responds during their first time in this type of situation when they are in that deep. You're not even seeing everything that is at work here.

b

[theredpill5]

I agree with Bernie , completely. This chick is completely playing you. She is F'd up , man. You think it is a coincidence that this guy has a key to her apartment ? You think it is a coincidence that this guy has her phone number and your phone number ? Yeah, she's being really nice to you letting you get involved in this [censored]. Misery loves company. She probably gave this guy your phone number. How do you feel about that ? At the very least, she gave him your real name. If she really cared about you, she would not have done any of this.

I want you to repeat this, "she is a stupid bitch". Just repeat that over and over then move and get a new apartment and don't tell her where you went.

[DavidC]

You know, it's not a good idea to get drunk when crap like this happens. You might embarass yourself in front of your gf or be unco-ordinated / dimwitted if you find yourself in a confrontation with the ex.

I'll quote something from you:

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway...the fact that he knew about the cruise surprised her because that wasn't one of the things he mentioned before.

[/ QUOTE ]

and:

[ QUOTE ]
Night before the cruise she was in his bed 'f'cking' him all night long and then she left with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

These two quotes are not consistent with eachother.

The guy's psycho, needs help, and is trying to [censored] you over; ignore what he says.

However, change the locks on the gf's house, get the divorce finalized, and I'd say that it's worth while to get a restraining order / file criminal charges, etc. You should have done this a while ago.

--Dave.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
This chick is completely playing you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can give the chick the benefit of the doubt that she isn't maliciously, conciously intending to play the OP. She's likely just as lost in the situation as the OP.

Fact is, it's not the OPs problem to sort out. It's hers. It's her baggage. It's a very unhealthy situation to be in. That's among the other red flags that are showing up as a result of the situation that could come back up later on in life even if the 'ex' is out of the picture.

b

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]

She also is changing the code on their house-alarm.
She had never bothered changing it previously because she never suspected he might do something like this.


[/ QUOTE ]

Be sure to call the company and tell them that the husband is no longer allowed to enter the house. Otherwise they call, he answers, they shut off the alarm. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[theredpill5]

For god's sake, don't ever have kids with her or get her pregnant. That's another thing man. You can't really make any plans at this point that involve her because she is involved in this situation. Even if things in her life did clear up, would you really want to have kids with someone who was involved in something like this ? Maybe she was part of the problem. You don't know this. You often don't know who people really are when you are dating them. I think this could be the case here.

I just have hard time believing that she is completely innocent here. Ok, if you aren't willing to listen to some of us on here and move away and not tell her. Do this.

Somehow contact her little brother that is staying with her and ask him if she calls this "ex-husband" of hers. In quotes because , she is still married to him.

Just stop being in a relationship with a married woman. It's that simple. Geez. We shouldn't have to tell you this, man. Just go bang someone else.

[MicroBob]

thanks for your input.

your comments are no longer welcome and I would appreciate it if you would quite responding.

[Bluffoon]

As a divorced guy I have dated a lot of separated and divorced women. It never matters to me whether they are legally divorced or not but if I see that there is still an emotional relationship or unresolved issues it is my policy to bail.

As you are seeing it is messy when past relationships are unresolved. It is also inconsiderate to say the least about your partner. Her inability or unwillingness to deal with this prior relationship is causing you a lot of stress. A thoughtful and considerate partner would not do this. It also shows a lot of emotional immaturity on her part. Why hasn't she taken steps to break her relationship completely with this guy? The fact that he has had a key to her house until very recently is interesting. This would have been vey easy situation to correct and not doing so sends a message that "my door is still open for you" to the ex. I usually give my girlfiends a key to my place and I change it immediately if I break up with them.

If I were in your shoes I would tell my partner that I wanted a short separation. I would tell her that I wasn't pleased with how she is handling the situation with her ex and that this would give her time to straighten things out with her ex and figure out how she wants to move on with her life.

This would send the message that you will not tolerate the way she is conducting herself and that whatever is going on with her ex must stop and thjings must change if you are going to stay in the relationship. It will also give you time to step back and take a good hard objective look at the situation. Sometimes in the heat of the moment we tend to overlook/justify/deny certain realities if we dont want to se them.

Since you are going away for the WSOP maybe you should tell her you will call her after you get back to see if things can be worked out. Whatever you decide good luck.

Jim

[bernie]

Great post!

[ QUOTE ]
As a divorced guy I have dated a lot of separated and divorced women. It never matters to me whether they are legally divorced or not but if I see that there is still an emotional relationship or unresolved issues it is my policy to bail.

As you are seeing it is messy when past relationships are unresolved. It is also inconsiderate to say the least about your partner. Her inability or unwillingness to deal with this prior relationship is causing you a lot of stress. A thoughtful and considerate partner would not do this. It also shows a lot of emotional immaturity on her part. Why hasn't she taken steps to break her relationship completely with this guy? The fact that he has had a key to her house until very recently is interesting. This would have been vey easy situation to correct and not doing so sends a message that "my door is still open for you" to the ex. I usually give my girlfiends a key to my place and I change it immediately if I break up with them.

If I were in your shoes I would tell my partner that I wanted a short separation. I would tell her that I wasn't pleased with how she is handling the situation with her ex and that this would give her time to straighten things out with her ex and figure out how she wants to move on with her life.

This would send the message that you will not tolerate the way she is conducting herself and that whatever is going on with her ex must stop and thjings must change if you are going to stay in the relationship. It will also give you time to step back and take a good hard objective look at the situation. Sometimes in the heat of the moment we tend to overlook/justify/deny certain realities if we dont want to se them.

Since you are going away for the WSOP maybe you should tell her you will call her after you get back to see if things can be worked out. Whatever you decide good luck.

Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

After I survived my initial experience, this is exactly how I see it. I've had this exact talk a few times. Sometimes it worked out well, others, well, that was it.

You are dead on about stepping back and taking a better look at the situation.

b

[kurosh]

follow my advice (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=exchange&Number=2444893&Fo rum=All_Forums&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=2 444893&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=14533&datera nge=1&newerval=1&newertype=w&olderval=&oldertype=& bodyprev=#Post2444893)

[BOTW]

I hope this works out ok.

I've been a "psycho-ex" once before. The mixed signals she gave me confused me to the point I could no longer think straight. Made the call to the new BF and scared him so much he moved. When she finally got the guts to say "it is over" and stopped letting me in her pants, my confusion quickly ended. (I'm not saying your GF is still sleeping with him, but if she talks to him at all that might be enough to make him think, "she still loves me".)

Ask her if she really wants him completely gone from her life. If she does, she really needs to tell him to go away in no uncertain terms. Have her call him while you are there to be supportive. Have a script that does not give any sort of mixed signals for her to read to him, only read from the script, then end the call. The script should say, "NO." If she contacts him or allows him to contact her after this point, move to another country.

Change the locks, get locking mailboxes or a PO Box if you don't have them already, screen all calls and don't talk or listen to messages from him, adopt a dog, get a locking gas cap (you can pry the cover open easily). I'm gonna vote against getting restraining order unless you need to get the police involved for some other reason (e.g. vandalism, stolen mail). Make sure your family and friends know as much as you can tell them about this guy, and that they avoid contact as well.

Are there any issues over money in the divorce? If so, the photos are no problem. If not, I'd worry somewhat about the guy doing "cowardly" stuff like poisoning pets, keying your car, etc.

[theredpill5]

Robert Stack and "Unsolved Mysteries" thanks God that there are people like OP still walking the planet.

[ftball0000]

I read all the responses especally bernie's who I feel has experience on his side.

1st of all, you are a lucky guy that all these people would respond to give you advice about your situation.

Now I know you are in love, and this makes it hard for any guy to make a logical judgement. Which is why its good to have friends to help you see the whole picture.

Bernie's point of view is strictly logical, relationship is giving you lots of unordinary stress = go find a new relationship, there are lots of chicks out there.

I have a question, it's hypothetical, if you could go out and get another woman that would have the exact qualities this one has, but no psycho-ex would you?

I would, but if it were only that easy right....

What I would do is, have a discussion w/ your chick, saying what you need to do for you. Not for her, or the relationship.

Relationships should make your life better and easier, not worse and more stressful, and I'm sure for the most part this one has made your life better. Otherwise you wouldn't care about it, you'd just drop her.

But remember that you are the #1 priority to yourself at all times. Just say what you need to have done for yourself to be happy, and you want her to be with you, but that if she chooses to make choices that keep causing you undue stress and fear for your safety, then you see things for what they are.

Life is all about choices and to quote Bill Belichick "It is what it is"

HTH and Good Luck,
-Ftball

[Los Feliz Slim]

This is slightly unrelated to your current situation, but from your OP it sounds like you both got into this relationship only a couple of months after getting separated. I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make, but that's pretty quick to go from one long-term relationship to another and makes warning bells go off for me.

[MicroBob]

very nice post


[ QUOTE ]
Life is all about choices

[/ QUOTE ]


this is pretty much what I was saying to her on the phone last night.
I said that she made a choice to not approach him about the divorce and give him time to accept it because she thought he might freak otherwise (and she also just didn't want to deal with a fight).

I said that this may not have been the best choice she could have taken but we don't know that.
I said that she hopefully thought it was the best decision she could have made at the time and this is all you can really ask for...to try to make the best decision.

Regardless, we're in a situation now to say the least.


I agree that my first priority is to myself and all that stuff.
I'm all sbout that.


I fully realize that if we break-up that I'll live and love again.
I'm completely against 'needy' relationships.
But I'm not afraid to say that I do indeed love this girl quite a lot. If I had to let her go it would kind of suck....but I would move on. I've done so before.

And I'm smooth enough and funny enough that I can woo some young, sweet thing no problemo (quite an accomplishment for a balding, short, pudgy guy)


I do believe that some bad choices have been made by her...but I also think that some people are reading more into it then is really there.


Really it's just 1 choice for the most part.
She trusted him to do the right thing and be a stand-up guy.

Specifica decisions she made included not moving on the divorce (in hopes that he would come around) and not getting back her key (trusting that he wouldn't break-in to her place).

Other lazyness that she displayed included not changing her passwords on her e-mail and possibly on her bank-account or whatever.

I don't think these are the worst decisions in the world. She trusted him and now understands that he can't be trusted.


Anyway - let me clarify my original post a bit because I guess it really does look like he's been a non-stop pest when the reality is he is just not something we really thought about very often.


It was really pretty much:
- Ex isn't calling me very much anymore. And when he does it's not a big deal. He knows she wants a divorce because she has told him so and she hopes that soon he'll agree.
He's sounding like he's more agreeable but then he says he doesn't want to get a divorce. But he still seems to be coming around.

- She hasn't heard from him in a couple months. She calls and leaves a message asking if he's ready to do the divorce. He doesn't call back. More weeks go by without hearing from him.

- In Jan or Feb he shows up at her door. She calms him down. Considers it one little freak-out episode where he's being dramatic. He leaves. She tells me about it. I ask if she thinks she needs a restraining order. She thinks he was okay at the end of their chat. We move on.


- She continues to not hear from him for a couple months.
He sends her a card for her birthday.


- Then this past weekend when EVERYTHING got REALLY weird all at once.


I'm stating this to clarify the original post I guess.
We hadn't heard from him for several weeks at a time and she thought everything was going just how she wanted it to go.

This weekend was a big step backwards....that neither one of us saw coming.
Afterall...I think she talked with him a couple weeks after his first bang-on-the-door episode. His mom had had a stroke and he wanted to mention it to her since she knew his mom.

I completely understand that too...I called my ex when my grandfather died even though she didn't know him that well.


Anyway, she trusted this guy to be fairly normal and obviously expressed bad judgement about that...but, again, simply did not foresee that he would be like he was this
past weekend.

Perhaps we should have seen it coming...but not hearing from him for awhile with the lone exception being a non-conforntational phone-call and everything seemed peachy as far as we knew.



FWIW - I too have shown up drunk at an ex's door-step once. Trying to win her back. It didn't work.
So I figured that his little stunt in January was kind of similar to that.
During the several weeks that he didn't repeat that episode I determined that it probably was just a one-time thing and wasn't worth worrying about.
This weekend changed all that obviously.


Also FWIW - I still have a key to my old house that I shared with my ex. It didn't even occur to me that I had it until now...it's still on my freaking key-chain for crying-out loud.
My ex doesn't live at that place anymore but if she did and
If I told my ex I had it she wouldn't think twice about it because she trusts that I'm not a total psycho.


Obviously my GF had similar trust in this guy....and was incorrect about it.


She has already said she's changing the locks just in case he has an extra key....and is filing for the divorce now that he has finally given his approval.


Anyway - we'll continue to talk and see what develops.
I appreciate the input and do admit that the number of 'leave her now' responses was higher than I would have expected.

So I felt I should clarify that all this bit about 'all this stress' she is bringing into my life isn't completely accurate.
We have had a virtually stress-free relationship for quite some time. Occasionally she gets upset about something (work, her mom, or her ex perhaps) but people get upset...it happens.

But this has been easily the most stress-free relationship I have ever had (up until this weekend).


For those who want me to take a time-out...well, I'm heading to Vegas for 3 weeks so we'll talk about whether we want to do an 'official' time-out or anything like that. But regardless it will obviously give us time away from each other to evaluate.


I'm open-minded about the possibilities either way.

[mostsmooth]

i didnt read all the replies, so forgive me if im repeating somebody else, but you could hire your own PI and have him keep an eye on her or him for a week or so now or while youre away.

[HesseJam]

Bob, at the very end you are on your own here. The girl has some issues but you are already aware of them. You said it, we are all having issues...

You have to decide if your partnership is worth going through this mess. You have to decide what you now need from her to reassure yourself then ask it from her and make sure that you get it. In exchange you will give back love and reassurance. This may work out or not, who knows (not me)?

If I were in your situation, I would be in danger to fall to the helper syndrome and neglect my needs.

[slickpoppa]

Bob, tell this girl to get a divorce as soon as possible. If she says no or hesitates, dump her. It doesn't matter if she is very "non-confrontational," if she cares about you she will appreciate what the current situation is doing to you. Given how much the situation has escalated to this point, if she does not get the divorce now, what the hell is holding her back?

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Tell your gf to HAVE HER LOCKS CHANGED IMMEDIATELY.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. This was my first thought too. Why hasn't she done this? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[jakethebake]

I read through all this, but it was a lot so I ight've missed it, but do we know if she was or wasn't cheating on Bob?

[Bluffoon]

[ QUOTE ]
I read through all this, but it was a lot so I ight've missed it, but do we know if she was or wasn't cheating on Bob?

[/ QUOTE ]

On Bob? Or her husband? Probably the same answer either way.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I read through all this, but it was a lot so I ight've missed it, but do we know if she was or wasn't cheating on Bob?

[/ QUOTE ]

On Bob? Or her husband? Probably the same answer either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

On Bob. She's been split from hubby for two and a hlf years right? Hubby says she's been cheating on bob with him. Right? Has she? Do we know?

[Bluffoon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I read through all this, but it was a lot so I ight've missed it, but do we know if she was or wasn't cheating on Bob?

[/ QUOTE ]

On Bob? Or her husband? Probably the same answer either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

On Bob. She's been split from hubby for two and a hlf years right? Hubby says she's been cheating on bob with him. Right? Has she? Do we know?

[/ QUOTE ]

That was kind of a rhetorical question. If she is still involved with the man that she is married to then you could look at it like she is cheating on him with bob.

The important point to me is that this is a very messy situation and I would hold the GF responsible for it and I wouldn't be looking for anybody to resolve the situation for me. I would resolve it myself by removing myself and finding a healthier relationship. I have found that waiting for situations/people to change does not work. They have created those situations for a reason and those reasons rarely change and people rarely change. They usually keep doing whatever it is they have been doing. To expect them to all of a sudden start doing something different is not realistic.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
That was kind of a rhetorical question. If she is still involved with the man that she is married to then you could look at it like she is cheating on him with bob.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my point! That's what I'm asking! Do we know if she's still involved with the man she's married to? Or is he just still stalking her or something?

[M2d]

Definately be willing to fight, but do your damndest to avoid this endpoint. The guy's bigger than you, probably stronger than you, and probably much more psycho than you with much less to lose (he's already lost the girl). Aren't most murders crimes of passion? don't you want to avoid this option if possible?

You can either be "the man" and (best case scenario) get knocked around, or you can be a "wimp" and live to tell about it. sometimes, there's no shame in avoiding physical encounters.

[jcx]

[ QUOTE ]
Robert Stack and "Unsolved Mysteries" thanks God that there are people like OP still walking the planet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it. Robert Stack is dead.

To the OP: You seemed to be most concerned about whether your g/f is still sleeping with her husband (he's NOT her ex yet). After reading all the posts, every instinct I have tells me they have been. It is obvious that your girlfriend still feels emotional attachment to her husband on some level. It might be she simply feels sorry for him, but that is irrelevant. People break up and still sleep together. Sympathy f**ks happen all the time. You know he had access to her apt. The whole situation screams "proceed with caution". Your g/f may be a real sweet lady. I hope for your sake you are right. Good luck to you.

[Shajen]

Your instincts probably tell you to try to protect your woman.

Your instincts could be wrong.

Protect yourself by distancing yourself from her and her psycho ex until they get their issues resolved.

Some people thrive on drama, Bob. Perhaps she is one that does?

You seem like too nice a guy to get caught up in the middle of all this crap.

Alternatively, you could let your cat at him.

GL man, and I hope it works out for you.

Take some time, get away from the situation and think logically about it, not emotionally.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
and is filing for the divorce now that he has finally given his approval

[/ QUOTE ]

Curious what she'll do if he renegs on this? Hopefully he won't. But there should be a back-up plan just in case. Don't 'cross that bridge when we get to it'. Plan ahead. That's what a mature adult would do.

I also don't agree with needing his approval to file for a divorce. There's no reason for her to protect him from her getting on with her life. Yes, I read her reasoning. I find it unsatisfactory. This is what happens when you play both sides of the fence and try to balance your ex's feelings while bringing someone else in. There's nothing new or unique about this situation.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
i didnt read all the replies, so forgive me if im repeating somebody else, but you could hire your own PI and have him keep an eye on her or him for a week or so now or while youre away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Colossal waste of money. If you're at the point of hiring a PI to watch your g/f, you should be done with the relationship.

That'd be a great conversation should she ever find out you did that.

b

[RacersEdge]

I have no experience with something like this, but I might just put all contact with the gf on hold until the divorce is 100% final. Just get out of this gray area of almost divorced/separated. That way, you're playing things completely above board and you make sure gf is 100% committed to you.

At very least, be suspicious if divorce hits any more delays.

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
You are in such denial, man. I know why though. You really like this girl. You are starting to talking about cops getting involved. This guys is stalking both of you and taking pictures. Dude, if I were you, I would moving to another apartment on the other side of the city by next week at the latest and not telling this stupid bitch where I was going. I'm not joking. The guy who said that you don't deserve all this was right, but if you continue involved in this [censored], then yeah you deserve whatever you get. You may get lucky and nothing happens or......

She isn't worth it. Just go find someone else. The guy who said just cut all ties and move away was right. Listen to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

How old are you, one day you'll grow up and realise somethings are more important than mere convenience.

Mack

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
yes there are...and i understand your point.

but this guy really wasn't much of an issue until this weekend.

before we would just joke about him and I helped her through some of it.
Otherwise we have been terrific.
Going out together in town is always fun and we never fight and we are really close.
going out together out of town (like on the PPM cruise) is even more fun.


I'm taking the approach that this will, in fact, make us stronger.
It's not really her fault that she had bad taste in men previously (and has GREAT taste now I might add).

It's her ex that's doing this stuff.
And the reason he's doing it is in hopes that it will cause more serious problems with me and her.


We have been planning on moving out of town together for awhile now...and it's really just about her getting her house fixed-up so that she can sell it.
This may be the impetus to get us moving.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Bob

If you have a good thing with this girl, don't let this idiot [censored] it up for you, don't be stupid relax, don't be intimidated, and don't take anything he says with more than a pinch of salt. If I was in your shoes he could be 9 foot tall and I still wouldn't [censored] budge for him.

Regards Mack

[JackWilson]

MicroBob

Just take it easy for now. Don't do anything rash. I would strongly urge you not do leave her for now. You have no good reason to. If things get worse you can start considering it. However, if you're routinely gonna leave a great person over something like this you might find it hard to stay married for very long.

So just give it some time. I don't get why people like bernie and theredpill have made 20+ posts on this thread trying to get you to just dump her.

[Bluffoon]

[ QUOTE ]
MicroBob

Just take it easy for now. Don't do anything rash. I would strongly urge you not do leave her for now. You have no good reason to. If things get worse you can start considering it. However, if you're routinely gonna leave a great person over something like this you might find it hard to stay married for very long.

So just give it some time. I don't get why people like bernie and theredpill have made 20+ posts on this thread trying to get you to just dump her.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because they are smart about relationships

[JackWilson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MicroBob

Just take it easy for now. Don't do anything rash. I would strongly urge you not do leave her for now. You have no good reason to. If things get worse you can start considering it. However, if you're routinely gonna leave a great person over something like this you might find it hard to stay married for very long.

So just give it some time. I don't get why people like bernie and theredpill have made 20+ posts on this thread trying to get you to just dump her.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because they are smart about relationships

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there some sort of certified relationship IQ test thing you can do to test how "smart about relationships" you really are?

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MicroBob

Just take it easy for now. Don't do anything rash. I would strongly urge you not do leave her for now. You have no good reason to. If things get worse you can start considering it. However, if you're routinely gonna leave a great person over something like this you might find it hard to stay married for very long.

So just give it some time. I don't get why people like bernie and theredpill have made 20+ posts on this thread trying to get you to just dump her.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because they are smart about relationships

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have a serious look at any of bernies advice, he is trying to help Bob.

On the other hand, theredpill5 has basically been slandering Bob's girlfriend over and over and over, he even went so far as to call her a "stupid bitch".

Theredpill5 is a cancer to this and the internet texas hold'em forums. His posts are not only worthless, but offensive. He has already been banned 5x, I only wish for a 6th

[Bluffoon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MicroBob

Just take it easy for now. Don't do anything rash. I would strongly urge you not do leave her for now. You have no good reason to. If things get worse you can start considering it. However, if you're routinely gonna leave a great person over something like this you might find it hard to stay married for very long.

So just give it some time. I don't get why people like bernie and theredpill have made 20+ posts on this thread trying to get you to just dump her.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because they are smart about relationships

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there some sort of certified relationship IQ test thing you can do to test how "smart about relationships" you really are?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bernie just passed it. If you are not smart about relationships you dont know when someone is. If you are you do. Trust me.

[Bluffoon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MicroBob

Just take it easy for now. Don't do anything rash. I would strongly urge you not do leave her for now. You have no good reason to. If things get worse you can start considering it. However, if you're routinely gonna leave a great person over something like this you might find it hard to stay married for very long.

So just give it some time. I don't get why people like bernie and theredpill have made 20+ posts on this thread trying to get you to just dump her.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because they are smart about relationships

[/ QUOTE ]

actually theredpill5 is a huge moron. I would have a serious look at any of bernies advice, he is trying to help Bob.

look at any of theredpill5's posts in SSNL, or just look at the ones in this thread. He has basically been slandering Bob's girlfriend over and over and over, he even went so far as to call her a "stupid bitch".

Theredpill5 is a cancer to this and the internet texas hold'em forums. He needs to be banned.... for like the 5th time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was referring more specifically to bernie's advice but if TRP is advising bob to back off from this relationship then his advice is not bad regardless of his motivation.

[JackWilson]

My point is that I don't think it's necessary to post about it like 5 times then once more for every person who agreed with his advice, every 2nd post on the first 3 pages is by bernie. I'm not saying his advice is bad, but he shouldn't (consciously or unconsciously) brainwash MicroBob into believe it by repeating it 20 times.

[MicroBob]

Thanks Jack.
nicely put.


I believe Bernie is truly seeing danger in my path and thus he has genuine concern that if I don't leave now things will get worse.

I doubt he will be satisfied with my current plan (see my new thread on this).

Bernie does seem to have some bitterness over past experiences perhaps swaying him in all this. He is really pushing as hard as he can for me to drop her like a hot potato.


I don't do "stupid bitch" comments. Ever.
(I'm talking about the other guy...not bernie).
The attitude just bothers me.
There do seem to be a couple of hard-core woman-haters on here.


Hey, I've had my heart-stomped upon before too. It happens. Sometimes in really cruel ways.
Life goes on.

[Bluffoon]

[ QUOTE ]
My point is that I don't think it's necessary to post about it like 5 times then once more for every person who agreed with his advice, every 2nd post on the first 3 pages is by bernie. I'm not saying his advice is bad, but he shouldn't (consciously or unconsciously) brainwash MicroBob into believe it by repeating it 20 times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jack I agree you are right. You can't push advice onto people. All you can do is offer it.

Bob I believe Bernie knows what he is talking about. I know you dont see it. I hope bernie and I are wrong and everything works out for the best. Good luck in love and in poker.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe Bernie is truly seeing danger in my path and thus he has genuine concern that if I don't leave now things will get worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

'Could' very easily get worse.

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt he will be satisfied with my current plan

[/ QUOTE ]

I can probably guess.

[ QUOTE ]
Bernie does seem to have some bitterness over past experiences perhaps swaying him in all this.

[/ QUOTE ]

No bitterness at all. It's called been there, right in the middle of the hailstorm. Watched others go there, and come out. Read alot about it as a result of my experience, along with many other sources. I understand this situation very well and am very passionate about my views on it having gone through it. I don't like to see anyone go through that. I would've said/posted the same thing, just as adamantly to any of my friends here at home. The main problem I see is that you're not thinking clearly because you are caught up in it emotionally. Based on your posts/responses, you aren't seeing all the angles at work here. Yknow what? That's normal.

[ QUOTE ]
He is really pushing as hard as he can for me to drop her like a hot potato.


[/ QUOTE ]

Im saying get away until she has her act together. It's an unhealthy situation. Don't you think you deserve a better situation?

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
However, if you're routinely gonna leave a great person over something like this you might find it hard to stay married for very long.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're nuts. I had to read this twice to make sure i read it right. This type of thing doesn't happen in healthy relationships. Im going to guess that you've never been involved, or seen up close, this type of thing. If you did, you'd never have used the phrase you just used above that I quoted.

[ QUOTE ]
I would strongly urge you not do leave her for now. You have no good reason to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personal safety is a mighty fine reason. That reason may not be good enough for you, fine. Have fun looking over your shoulder for awhile. No thanks.

b

[Jim Kuhn]

Bob,

You have shown that you have alot of common sense and I pretty much agree with how you are handling this situation. I think you should stick with your girlfriend and believe her until proven otherwise. Also, please don't underestimate how crazy some people are. We read news stories about jealous husbands and boyfriends every week. At the first hint he is not cooperating I would seek a restraining order.

I agree with your 'playing it cool' and waiting to see how things develop. Getting the locks changed and the alarm code changed is also wise. Be careful for a couple of weeks at least. If he has several pictures of you he probably knows where you live. I would buy the girlfriend some pepper spray and consider either a gun or at least a baseball bat by the front door and in the bedroom.

The following statement is what I would disagree with:

[ QUOTE ]
while i'm not going to give her an ultimatum like that I do think she'll file this week.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would give an ultimatum if needed. Technically you are sleeping with a married woman. If you were out at a club or something and he roughed you up he would claim you are seeing his wife. Hard to say how the cops or bouncers would react. She should at least get some legal papers saying the divorce is in process.

Good luck with this process. I know you have a strong personality and alot of common sense. Best of luck to your girlfriend as I am sure it is even tougher on her.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[jakethebake]

Like the sands of the hourglass....

[MicroBob]

thanks for the kind words Jim.

I posted my update in a 2nd thread on this.


I have not given her an ultimatum...but have since explained that I need to see her move as quickly as possible on this divorce and that that would help me.

She is being very understanding about my needs in this and is being stronger about it than she ever has in the past.


The pepper-spray isn't a half-bad idea either.

[jakethebake]

I'm waiting for the GF to get amnesia and then her evil twin to tkae her place.

Also, I don't like this Bob character. I'd write him off the show.

[samjjones]

Two years separated or not, I'd be pretty pissed if I found out somebody was sleeping with my wife, too. Two years is ENTIRELY too long to stay separated.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Two years separated or not, I'd be pretty pissed if I found out somebody was sleeping with my wife, too. Two years is ENTIRELY too long to stay separated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? You think she's been celibate for two years? Do you think he has? They're separated. They're not together. That's what separated means.

[Nick-Zack]

The unfortunate answer to this problem is that you are in the wrong. You have been dating a married woman for 2 years now. Even though they have been seperated, they are still married. The painful solution is that you need to stop seeing her at all until the divorce is finalized.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
The unfortunate answer to this problem is that you are in the wrong. You have been dating a married woman for 2 years now. Even though they have been seperated, they are still married. The painful solution is that you need to stop seeing her at all until the divorce is finalized.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yopu people are crazy. Why do you think people get separated? Even divorce courts don't consider it cheating when people are separated. Just because people are still legally married and haven't gotten the final papers signed doesn't mean they still behave as married people.

[CORed]

Your GF needs to change her locks immediately. She should have done it as soon as he moved out, but that's water under the bridge now.A restraining order would also probably be a good idea. I think the ex's claim that she's still sleeping with him is BS, but it would probably bother me some if i were in your situation.

[Nick-Zack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The unfortunate answer to this problem is that you are in the wrong. You have been dating a married woman for 2 years now. Even though they have been seperated, they are still married. The painful solution is that you need to stop seeing her at all until the divorce is finalized.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yopu people are crazy. Why do you think people get separated? Even divorce courts don't consider it cheating when people are separated. Just because people are still legally married and haven't gotten the final papers signed doesn't mean they still behave as married people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jake - you obviously have never gone through a divorce. The emotions are very strong when this happens. Sometimes it makes sense to seperate for awhile and see how you feel about the other person after a cooling off period.

It is almost never a good idea to date a married person and like it or not seperated=married still.

Entering into a relationship with someone that is going through emotional trauma (divorce/seperation) is just asking for problems. It makes alot of sense to wait until the divorce is signed and several months have passed until even dating someone.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Jake - you obviously have never gone through a divorce. The emotions are very strong when this happens. Sometimes it makes sense to seperate for awhile and see how you feel about the other person after a cooling off period.

[/ QUOTE ]
After two and a half years they should be pretty cool. And their marriage is not Bob's responsibility.

[samjjones]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two years separated or not, I'd be pretty pissed if I found out somebody was sleeping with my wife, too. Two years is ENTIRELY too long to stay separated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? You think she's been celibate for two years? Do you think he has? They're separated. They're not together. That's what separated means.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I am serious. I don't know about you, but when I got married one of the vows they made me say was to honor my wife and foresake all others. If you really think a "time out" in the marriage means you can f*** whoever you want during the "separation", then I think we have different interpretations of what marriage means. Because regardless of the other issues, the GF and other guy were still legally married, and she was committing adultery. If this guy has pictures, don't think he won't use them if the divorce gets messy.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I am serious. I don't know about you, but when I got married one of the vows they made me say was to honor my wife and foresake all others. If you really think a "time out" in the marriage means you can f*** whoever you want during the "separation", then I think we have different interpretations of what marriage means. Because regardless of the other issues, the GF and other guy were still legally married, and she was committing adultery. If this guy has pictures, don't think he won't use them if the divorce gets messy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually this is completely wrong. When people are separated, divorce courts pretty much ignore what happens during that time. And the what you think about getting separated during marriage doesn't matter. You're not the one that's separated. People get separated for the exact reason that they don't want to be together anymore. Generally not wanting to be together means they're going to be with other people. And I think that when you're talking about twoand a half years, you're pretty much past the "we're on a break" thing. It's pretty much over.

[Bluffoon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Jake - you obviously have never gone through a divorce. The emotions are very strong when this happens. Sometimes it makes sense to seperate for awhile and see how you feel about the other person after a cooling off period.

[/ QUOTE ]
After two and a half years they should be pretty cool. And their marriage is not Bob's responsibility.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have dated women who have been divorced for several years that were still emotionally involved with their ex and I have dated separated women who had completely moved on. I think its something you have to look at an a case by case basis.

[Nick-Zack]

[ QUOTE ]

After two and a half years they should be pretty cool. And their marriage is not Bob's responsibility.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another big red flag is that she never filed for divorce. Filing for divorce is usually on the top of the list for those that want it.

[Nick-Zack]

[ QUOTE ]

Actually this is completely wrong. When people are separated, divorce courts pretty much ignore what happens during that time. And the what you think about getting separated during marriage doesn't matter. You're not the one that's separated. People get separated for the exact reason that they don't want to be together anymore. Generally not wanting to be together means they're going to be with other people. And I think that when you're talking about twoand a half years, you're pretty much past the "we're on a break" thing. It's pretty much over.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a big difference between living seperately and having a court approved legal seperation. I don't remember reading in the loooonnnnggg original post that this is a legal seperation.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

After two and a half years they should be pretty cool. And their marriage is not Bob's responsibility.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another big red flag is that she never filed for divorce. Filing for divorce is usually on the top of the list for those that want it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. I know several people that have been separated for years and just never saw a need to go through the legal cost/hassle of filing. I know one guy that didn't even know where his wife was for a couple of years. He had to track her down when he wanted to get remarried.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a big difference between living seperately and having a court approved legal seperation. I don't remember reading in the loooonnnnggg original post that this is a legal seperation.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no practical difference.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two years separated or not, I'd be pretty pissed if I found out somebody was sleeping with my wife, too. Two years is ENTIRELY too long to stay separated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? You think she's been celibate for two years? Do you think he has? They're separated. They're not together. That's what separated means.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seperation doesn't mean go out and see if you can find better. Then, if not, well, maybe well get back together and try again. It's not a free pass to go out, have fun and screw people and bring them into your baggage. That's not the intent for seperation. Nor is it fair to do to someone on the outside. If that's what you think seperation is all about, you're dead wrong.

Seperation is to sort out your crap and see if you really want to stay with the person your seperated from. It's to get your head on str8 and really think about your situation and whether you want to continue or end it. Regardless of whether you meet someone during it.

Too many people use it as a safety net so that if it doens't work out with someone new they can go back to their old comfort zone. Again, that's not what it's there for.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
And I think that when you're talking about twoand a half years, you're pretty much past the "we're on a break" thing. It's pretty much over.


[/ QUOTE ]

As far as someone dating someone who is seperated, it is not over until those divorce papers are signed and delivered. Flat out.

b

[TripleH68]

Wow. This is quite a story. With hints of red flags...

I feel compelled to make a few comments. Since I do not know the parties involved I may be off base. If so please disregard. I have been through divorce myself and feel a bit of a connection so here goes(as if I am talking to my brother or best friend).

You describe your gf as a caring person, which is good. Trouble is it sounds like she may be feeling 'responsible' for her husband.

With all due respect several questions popped into my mind while reading your story...

1) After all this time why does this guy have keys to her place?
2) If it is what she wants to do, Why such a long delay in pursuing a divorce?
3) What may truly concern you is the possibility your gf is sugarcoating everything she is saying to her husband, rather than being more direct. She is waiting for him to act maybe? This is how you describe things in your post and it is her issue from which there is not an 'escape.'

I am sure she is a great gal. My concern for you is that an inability to take action without feeling responsible for someone else's feelings may be what got her married to this guy in the first place. And if this is a behavior pattern she will bring this issue(in one form or another) into your relationship.

Please consider counseling. Separate, together or both. It may teach both of you how to be true to yourself and be better for eachother.

I hope this helps you in the slightest, Robert.

The fact that she never changed her cell phone number after he called her so many times would make me concerned. The fact that her husband still has a key to her apartment would also make me concerned. These are things that are easy to change and would send a message to her husband that she no longer wants him around.

You definitely need to be careful around a girl like this. She may be a little slicker than what you're giving her credit for and it's easy to buy the "it wasn't me" line when your [censored] someone that you want to keep [censored].

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
After reading all the posts, every instinct I have tells me they have been.

[/ QUOTE ]
Indeed, this seems incredibly obvious to me. Compare the frequency of these two events: 1) previously deeply involved couples falling back into bed after the relationship has obstensibly ended; 2) ex'es calling their old partner's new SOs and making false claims about physical intimacy. 100:1, or more?

Think about this: What is the mental state of a guy who would call you and say he slept with her? This is an indication of someone who is still very emotionally attached, yes? So why do you think he is still so attached after all this time? The most likely answer is because she continued to give that thing that women give that indicate there is still intamacy, like when BOTW said:[ QUOTE ]
she finally got the guts to say "it is over" and stopped letting me in her pants

[/ QUOTE ]

PS: stick it...