22 on the bubble

[Newt_Buggs]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2530)
BB (t2880)
UTG (t3820)
Button (t770)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t770 (All-In)</font>, hero?

[lastchance]

Meh. I don't think 22's enough here. I know I call with 66 though.

[Scuba Chuck]

I would let the BB decide what to do. But I'm sure that pushing here isn't a bad move either. Calling here is the worst move.

Scuba

[Newt_Buggs]

would you ever call against a passive BB?

[yeau2]

Fold.

Do you call thinking...he's bluffing?

[lastchance]

I think calling with deuces is just asking for trouble. 3 overs are probably coming up, and he'll have committed dead money in the pot.

Button has a very wide range with under 3x BB and a fold in front of him though.

If he's not pushing at least 22+, A2+, K2+, Q7+, JT, he's tight, and you won't see that too much.

22 is 47% against that range, and if you bump that up to top 50%, it's still hovering in that 45-50% range. Considering BB folded in the BB, he's not completely desperate, so I think my range is about right.

If BB folds, I think you're getting enough of an overlay, but if BB calls with a monster, I think that hurts your equity enough to call. I think I fold, but it's a tough one.

[Nick B.]

i would be thrilled if I was on the button with 2.5bb and the sb folded 22.

[curtains]

I think folding is the worst of all 3 choices. By folding you are allowing the Button to exploit you.

[Newt_Buggs]

bump- we seemed to get some good debate going but never really reached much of a consensus.

[citanul]

i'd push here. eliminating the bb, you're risking 620 to win 770+150+300 more. the button's range is going to be incredibly wide, probably nearing any two. the odd's you're getting are great, the chips you risk won't kill you to lose (you won't be jumping for joy if you lose, but you're in no way out of the tournament), and hey, sometimes he's going to have a 2 in his hand.

i think if the bb is passive but one of them thar "call it and check it down" folks, i'd be calling. if any other sort of player, i'd push. folding i think is pretty terrible. that would be passing up in an overlay pot with the likely best hand and without risking a significant chunk of your stack (bad).

there's the concensus for you.

citanul

[adanthar]

It's a closer hand than most of the responses are saying, but I push here.

However, a few days ago, Scuba had a post about slightly lowering ROI in exchange for reduced variance (I never play that way, but some do and in small doses it can be legitimate). If you're on tilt, this is one of those hands you ought to be folding.

[NYCNative]

I HATE HATE HATE calling off my chips with a small PP (unless it's HU) because what are you thinking? You're RELIEVED that you're in a coin toss and you're dead if you're not. Neither situation is ideal. I don't mind being the one who PUSHES with the small PP, but calling it is another story.

[nokona13]

[ QUOTE ]
I HATE HATE HATE calling off my chips with a small PP (unless it's HU) because what are you thinking? You're RELIEVED that you're in a coin toss and you're dead if you're not. Neither situation is ideal. I don't mind being the one who PUSHES with the small PP, but calling it is another story.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but you're getting a hug overlay. You're likely to be coinflipping getting like 1.6:1 or so. If button's pushing top 50%, less than 10% of the hands he's pushing are dominating you, which definitely doesn't push your win percentage low enough that this isn't still a great overlay.

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
I HATE HATE HATE calling off my chips with a small PP (unless it's HU) because what are you thinking? You're RELIEVED that you're in a coin toss and you're dead if you're not. Neither situation is ideal. I don't mind being the one who PUSHES with the small PP, but calling it is another story.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, an underpair NEVER wins.

[NYCNative]

You like being a 4-to-1 dog? Or is this sarcasm?

[VoraciousReader]

I fold this. He has only 2 BBs left, so I don't see the percentage in getting involved in a showdown on his terms (i.e. he pushed first). Why give him the opportunity to double up with a hand of his choosing?

You are way ahead of him in chips, even though you're in 3rd place, and taking all of his won't give you the chip lead. I'd rather wait him out or choose a hand on my terms.

[nokona13]

Yeah but you don't want to let the button abuse you. I think the overlay here is big enough and you're a 53:47 favorite often enough you need to try to bust the button here and gain on the chip leaders.

[utmt40]

I would fold.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah but you're getting a hug overlay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is a hug overlay when you get sucked out on and someone gives you a big hug to make you feel better?

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
You like being a 4-to-1 dog? Or is this sarcasm?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think a bit of his point had more to do with the fact that i was going to post about which is that you're not "calling off your chips" yo'ure calling off 1/4 or 1/5 or so of your chips. no one likes to call off ALL their chips with 22, but folding to a guy with 2.5 bb because he might have a bigget pair may or may not be ridiculous.

not taking coin flips because you don't want to bust out of the tournament on the bubble -&gt; ok

not taking coin flips because you are afraid of losing 1/4 of your stack on the bubble... -&gt; probably not ok.

also, nick could be pointing out that when you factor into your "and then i mean when you see the guy has 77 you're just dead and then you have to like kill yourself and resign the tournament" type of thinking is that 1/4 of the time you do win in that spot. so while if the guy pushed with 77 and showed it to me, i'd fold, my range of hands on villain has to be much bigger than that.

citanul

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah but you're getting a hug overlay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is a hug overlay when you get sucked out on and someone gives you a big hug to make you feel better?

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

only if it's a "special" hug.

[Newt_Buggs]

I haven't seen much mention of the big blind. If you put him on AJ+, 99+ I believe (not positive) you will get called 7% of the time by him. Granted this is not often often, but with 9 BB this would be a complete disaster. Pushing has a small edge as it stands, do you think that this 7% is significant enough to overcome this edge since getting busted on the bubble is so bad here?

oh yeah, and I found posts like these funny:
[ QUOTE ]

Fold.

Do you call thinking...he's bluffing?

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess that I shouldn't be surprised that this thread went way over the heads of many posters

[citanul]

losing to the bb only matters if he beats you and loses to the small stack. that's not common. and wowwy wow wow would i probably not make his range that loose. maybe it should be for a 22. meh. (not that he should be that loose, but that shouldbe the expected level of looseness.) the point being that coming in 3rd in the hand is the only shitey result.

citanul