AKo Lvl 3 Call This Re-Raise?

[Degen]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t959)
SB (t622)
BB (t1829)
UTG (t713)
UTG+1 (t442)
Hero (t730)
MP2 (t455)
MP3 (t1335)
CO (t915)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t200</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB calls t175, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t1829 (All-In)</font>, Hero ???

No reads, I was 7-tabling.


Andre

[xLukex]

I would push.

Now that I've said that, let's see why I'm wrong or right.

I don't know, could be a coinflip.

Maybe I'm just too aggressive.

[The Yugoslavian]

Ummm...with your raise I think you gotta call the push and it's not close.

Yugoslav

[Degen]

you mean open push instead of 4BB's? or call the push?

Andre

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
and it's not close

[/ QUOTE ]

sure feels like i could fold it

others agree that its not close?

Thx


Andre

[Scuba Chuck]

The only thing that makes this hand difficult has nothing to do with your cards. It has to do with who villain is.

[curtains]

very very obvious call

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing that makes this hand difficult has nothing to do with your cards. It has to do with who villain is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, too bad he has no idea...

But it does have to do with Degen's cards as well...only 2 hands are a problem here and there are only 6 ways to make em too (instead of 12)....so *even* if you can put the calling villian on a short list of hands...it is difficult to pin them on AA or KK enough of the time here to warrant a fold.

I'm not sure there are any opponents I know well enough (and who are predicatable enough) to warrant a fold after already putting in 1/4 my stack...

Yugoslav

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing that makes this hand difficult has nothing to do with your cards. It has to do with who villain is.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yeah, too bad he has no idea...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Degen didn't say what buyin this is, but I assume it's $33 if he's 7 tabling. Furthermore, I have no idea if villain has a read on Degen. But assuming he's a straight forward player, which I think is likely, you can narrow his HR to high pocket pairs (TT+) and AQ+ (which I'm not entirely confident with the AQ).

The size of Degen's bet tho has pretty much made this look like a "reverse gap" move.

[curtains]

A REVERSE GAP MOVE????

[The Yugoslavian]

So how is this decision difficult then??

Yugoslav

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
A REVERSE GAP MOVE????



[/ QUOTE ]

Irie term(I think). Made this comment on the play in the $22s. Where they would miniraise with crap, and still call a reraise.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]

A REVERSE GAP MOVE????

[/ QUOTE ]

haven't you read his book, it's clearly defined in the glossary.

citanul

[curtains]

Ok, just to assume that more than 5 people have any clue what a reverse gap move is seems unbelievable to me!

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

A REVERSE GAP MOVE????

[/ QUOTE ]

It was first coined (as far as I know) in Novemeber thusly:

[ QUOTE ]

I noticed that late in a SNG, many players are reluctant to push because they don't want to risk going broke with a marginal hand. But when you push, they see Q-8s as a nice hand with which to double through.

It's the exact opposite of what is correct. They subscribe to the "reverse gap concept." Your example is another illustration of it.

Irieguy


[/ QUOTE ]

Zen and Irie obviously refined the term and applied it to not only late game theory in an enlightening (although overlooked) thread (no Shadow....bad Shadow!):

This is what Scuba is talkin' about. (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1416803&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb=5&amp; o=&amp;vc=1)

Yugoslav

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

Ok, just to assume that more than 5 people have any clue what a reverse gap move is seems unbelievable to me!

[/ QUOTE ]

The term is relatively ubiquitous for those in the know...

Yugoslav
PS ~2% of the ppl who read this post will get it.
PPS For those who do get it, I just couldn't help myself.

[Bigwig]

I'd call like really fast.

[Bigwig]

Uh, okay. I understand what Irie is talking about, but tell me: How is this reverse gap stuff applicable to THIS hand posted by Degen?

[curtains]

I dunno, people like to use fancy made up terms /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[lehighguy]

Call because of your stack size.

Fold if you had the same # of chips as him.

[NYCNative]

Call. I bet you're in a coin flip.

[sunek]

I agree with most of the other posters that your chances of winning are probably a coin flip. In my opinion these odds are not good enough for me. Unless you know that the villains is super agrassive or are known to bluff often I would fold. If you had a large pp like QQ or better I would call else fold.

On top of that SB cold calls your rather large raise and he might call the all in as well since he just threw 33 % of his stack in the pot. Your odds against two opponents with AK are less than a coin flip.

Fold and wait for the next good hand (pray for pocket rockets soon)

-sunek

[gasgod]

Call

You're getting good odds for the call, and BB might well be trying to bully you and SB. He stands to gain t400 if he succeeds, and will still be in good shape if he loses, so I'd put him on a fairly wide range.

Assuming SB calls and busts out:

If you win, you take over the chip lead, and have excellent chances -- A $EV of roughly 23% of the prize pool. (19% if SB folds to the push)

Folding leaves you with t530 at level 3, not hopeless but an uphill struggle. You could spend another half hour eking out a fourth place finish. /images/graemlins/frown.gif A $EV of 7.5% of the prize pool.

In rough terms, you need to win about one time in three to break even. I like the chances of AKo in this scenario.

GG

[the shadow]

[ QUOTE ]
It was first coined (as far as I know) in Novemeber

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=786071&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb =5&amp;o=). Irie may have been the first to use it here, but the idea's been around before that.

The Shadow

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and it's not close

[/ QUOTE ]

sure feels like i could fold it

others agree that its not close?


[/ QUOTE ]

me

[Phil Van Sexton]

Once you bet 200, this hand is over. You have committed to calling any preflop push, pushing on any flop, or calling any push on the flop.

If you are not willing to do these things, don't bet 200 out of a 730 stack.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was first coined (as far as I know) in Novemeber

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=786071&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb =5&amp;o=). Irie may have been the first to use it here, but the idea's been around before that.

The Shadow

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahhh, I meant on the STT forum...the forum that counts...yeah...

Damn you Shadow! Thwarted again!

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Yugoslav

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
has to do with who villain is

[/ QUOTE ]

ok thanks for all the feedback guys, i really liked that irie post yugo..nice one.

but whats up w/ this line scuba? you mean that he is a big stack? or do you know who he is by how he played this? this line really threw me off...

Andre

[Bigwig]

Again, the ONLY way you can fold this hand is if you KNOW that the raiser has AA or KK. If he told me he had a pp while hooked up to a polygraph I'd still call. You're getting 5-2 on your money. Folding AQ would be wrong here. Hell, you should probably call with 88.