Downswing eating my soul. What's normal?

[RandBriscoe]

I've currently played about 30k combined of .5/1 and 1/2. If any of you remember my stats post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2318553&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) from a few weeks back, I was beating .5/1 for 3BB/100 after about 18k and was beating the hellish Crypto at 2.68BB/100.

Since then I have gotten pretty much owned. I've lost over 1/3 of my total earn and about 220 BB (including -65BB at the Cryptos in about 2 hours). Obviously, I'm not an expert player so my play magnifies the streak but when should I be making plans for what I'm gonna spend my freshly-cashed-out-roll on? I was under the impression that -200BB was about the worst swing I could expect but there seems to be no end in sight. Anyone had anything worse?

I seem to be getting a normal distribution of bad beats. Nothing unusual. Unfortunately, big draws seem to come in shorthanded exclusively. Multiway, they cost me 432 bets to see the river and decide they don't feel like coming in that time. My big broadways miss entirely or get drawn out on, JJ flops every overcard, QQ 3-way and both villains flop sets etc.

Before anyone says it, I am constantly trying to find good tables so I can't blame it on selection and I've already taken a week off and the swing picked up right where it started...

Basically my question is, how bad can this get before I am some pathetic outlier with only bonus money to his credit?

[milesdyson]

Keep playing. Post hands. Downswings are normal, sad, and angering. Upswings happen. Stop playing if you're tilting.

[Duerig]

[ QUOTE ]
Stop playing if you're tilting.

[/ QUOTE ]

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
Stop playing! You're tilting.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

My very first FYP

A 220BB downswing at the micros is pretty hardcore. If you're playing perfect poker, statistically you could still go a bit lower. 300BB swings are not unheard of around here.

That said, judging by the tone of your post, you need to take a few days off. Just let the bonuses die, and go outside, read a book, catch up on TIVO, do anything but play poker. Hell, don't even think poker for a little while. So, if you're reading a book, don't make it a poker book. Come back in a few days, brush up on everything, make sure your head is on straight, and go back at it.

[sx3_turbo]

Not that I'm a great player by any stretch, but I just took a couple of months off and picked up another hobby for a bit. The other day, I got in the mood to play, so I read the forums a couple days, reread my favorite parts of SSHE, rerolled myself and went to it. Taking the time off did wonders and I am much clearheaded than before. I'm not where I want to be, but see things better. My advice, for what it's worth: Take a few weeks off. And to echo the others, don't play tilted.

[Webster]

I think you are playing to much. Thats a lot of hands in a short time, How many ables are you playing and how many hours a week.

Your stats look good to me and normal for a player winning at that level.

My suggestion is to look at every hand you play and see if you can see any mistakes. We all make them even when winning. Instead of playing an hour - look over the previous session hand by hand.

What this will do is either show you a leak OR show you that your just getting rottin luck.

Just step back and take a breath. Losing is what makes a good winner. It's how you handle these down swings that make you a better player.


Grinders Warehouse BLOG Edition (http://www.grinderswarehouse.com)

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
I've lost over 1/3 of my total earn and about 220 BB (including -65BB at the Cryptos in about 2 hours). Anyone had anything worse?

[/ QUOTE ]
I lost 235 BB over the course of three nights. I made a post about it around the end of Feb or March. I was playing while tired and distracted. I took a break and came back gOOt.

[Duerig]

Your quote box is in French. What the [censored].

[mmbt0ne]

Je ne sais pas.

[shadow29]

[ QUOTE ]
Je ne sais pas.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow this is going to be ridiculously off topic.

Does your PStars name have a zero (0) or an "o" (O) in it?

[mmbt0ne]

If anyone ever has a question like this, the answer is always a zero. I don't use capital "O"s in screen names because I'm 1337, and because they're usually taken.

[shadow29]

[ QUOTE ]
If anyone ever has a question like this, the answer is always a zero. I don't use capital "O"s in screen names because I'm 1337, and because they're usually taken.

[/ QUOTE ]

...





Anyway.



I just transfered $15 to your acct. I thought about trying to win back the other $10, but then I realized that I would probably just tilt it away in drunken stupor. Peachtree City? Ugh, you're so hoi polloi. I don't think I'll talk to you again.

[mmbt0ne]

Hell yeah Peachtree City. Why you have to be a hater?

I would make fun of you, but according to PS you actually live IN Atlanta. I can't really do much with that. But, if you live in Marietta, Smyrna, Roswell, Acworth, etc. then I pshhaw at you too. Fuc[/b]king northen monkeys. (Movie? Anyone?)

[shadow29]

Well I won't be in Atlanta soon.

Sandy Springs, biatch. I thumb my nose at you.

[mmbt0ne]

We wipe our ass with Sandy Springs. Enjoy your overcrowded poorness.

Sandy Springs, GA

Population (year 2000): 85,781
Males: 42,150 (49.1%), Females: 43,631 (50.9%)

Elevation: 1032 feet

County: Fulton

Land area: 37.7 square miles

Zip code: 30328

Median resident age: 33.2 years
Median household income: $60,428 (year 2000)


Peachtree City, GA

Population (year 2000): 31,580, Est. population in July 2002: 32,406 (+2.6% change)
Males: 15,405 (48.8%), Females: 16,175 (51.2%)

Elevation: 920 feet

County: Fayette

Land area: 23.3 square miles

Zip code: 30269

Median resident age: 37.5 years
Median household income: $76,458 (year 2000)

[olavfo]

Some adjustments that could help you fight through this downswing:

<ul type="square">
Play sessions of predefined length. 1 hour sessions is perfect. When the time is up, quit whether you're losing or winning.
Reduce the number of tables, if you're multitabling.
Go back to basics and tighten up your preflop play. Skip marginal hands and stick to basic solid poker.
Take a few days off and read SSH (or the text of your choice) again. That should help you "reset" your mind.
[/list]
I once had a nasty -237 BB streak, which I killed by taking a 5 day break from poker. When I started playing again, things were back to normal and playing felt good.

Nowadays, if I sense I'm having a long, bad streak, I tighten up and play shorter sessions. Staying out of marginal situations reduces the potential for making poor decisions, while playing shorter sessions helps me stay off tilt.

olavfo

[stlip]

From your previous stats post you know that one of your leaks is a low WTSD number indicating that you fold too many marginal, but ultimately +EV hands. So I suppose it figures things would get a bit bleaker than average when you have a run where the strong hands don't win since too many of your other potential winning hands are routinely going in the muck.

The middle of a downswing (I shouldn't say the middle because you're probably already at about the end) is going to be a tough place to push yourself to start learning to play more marginal hands so I suggest you either focus on .5/1 or even wait until the downswing has run its course.

Here I must confess I can't be of much help in suggesting how to look for more types of hands to play. I already play a looser than average 1/2, VPIP 22-23 (24-25 when I played .5/1) and WTSD 38, W$SD 51.

I can say, by looking at some of the situations that I consider dicey but profitable, that overcards and middle pairs, usually with backdoor straight and flush potential in both, might be areas where you fold too quickly to a flop bet. It's very read dependent and pot size dependent, but I do plenty of good business in that area.

[martinimagic]

No worries man. I think I just bounced off the bottom of a -150BB downswing at .5/1. The only good news is I went about 1 month without have a losing session. I won like 250BB in a week at one point. It all evens out at some point. I took a break and still was playing bad after that. After this I looked at PT stats and realized I had loosened up over time... I loosened up due to the invincible feeling I had on +250BB gain. I also picked up Gamtime+ and this has been a big help.

I think the break is a great idea. It's easy to slip into loose mode when things are going good. I tightened up every so slightly and this made a big difference. Best of luck.

[mojobluesman]

Welcome to my life.

I have a funny feeling that a lot of winning players here actually haven't experienced a run of cards like this. They may have had downturns where they weren't getting good cards to play, weren't hitting the flop, and were getting blinded off and had a few occasional bad beats.

What you are describing gets so relentless it feels like a way of life.

When I flop a flush it's against 1 opponent that folds for a single flop bet.

When I have a nut flush draw against 5 opponents it gets capped pre-flop, capped on the flop, and raised on the turn but I don't fill. If I do fill, a pair comes on the river and I get full housed.

I give it another year and some big winners here are going to find out that they aren't as good as they think.

[KingOtter]

[ QUOTE ]
We wipe our ass with Sandy Springs. Enjoy your overcrowded poorness.

Sandy Springs, GA

Population (year 2000): 85,781
Males: 42,150 (49.1%), Females: 43,631 (50.9%)

Elevation: 1032 feet

County: Fulton

Land area: 37.7 square miles

Zip code: 30328

Median resident age: 33.2 years
Median household income: $60,428 (year 2000)


Peachtree City, GA

Population (year 2000): 31,580, Est. population in July 2002: 32,406 (+2.6% change)
Males: 15,405 (48.8%), Females: 16,175 (51.2%)

Elevation: 920 feet

County: Fayette

Land area: 23.3 square miles

Zip code: 30269

Median resident age: 37.5 years
Median household income: $76,458 (year 2000)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, well I live in Cumming, GA. You can imagine the comments *I* get on Party skins.

KO

[KingOtter]

<ul type="square">
Reduce the number of tables, if you're multitabling.
[/list]

I like the shorter sessions idea, but I was trying just playing one table, and concentrating on my play to get through my latest downswing, and it made my tilt worse.

I was single-tabling, concentrating on my play, and getting some nasty beats (flopped a full-house, decided to hit it on the turn, and a rock pulls a higher full-house on the turn and whacks me upside the head with it)... it made it worse!

So I went back to 2-tables... sometimes 3. That felt better... couldn't concentrate on my beats because I had to go to the next table...

Or it could just be that the variance is working in my favor (for the most part) again. I've been nailing more sets than my share lately. I still get bitch-slapped every time I try a wait-for-the-turn play, though.

KO

[Mister Z]

I'm in the middle of a (currently) -150BB swing, so I don't know if there is much I can do to help you but I feel like I should post here anyway. I dropped back down to .5/1 to clear the bonus and I found that I was playing much less scared and just better poker when I did this. I'm in the same situation as you though - my pocket rockets are a huge loser right now. I've had many sets busted, lost to higher flushes, had solid bots cracked by better boats for huge pots, it really is crazy. If I've gained anything from this it's been an ability to take losing sessions and bad beats with a smile. At the beginning I was throwing stuff and screaming obsenities. Now I sort of let it roll off - not as well as I should, but better than before.

I also took 3 days off last week and when I came back it was the same old story. I've since gone down to 2 tables and that at least lessens the bleeding if you're getting killed. Drop down a level if you can, play less tables, shorter sessions, and make sure you're trying to have fun. gOOt luck!