I'm a fish at Commerce 9/18

[rmarotti]

There is one half decent player at the table. He is not involved in this hand.

Hero is in the CO w/ Q/images/graemlins/club.gif8/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Horrible, slightly maniacal player UTG raises PF. This raise means that he was dealt two cards. 5 coldcalls to me. I 3-bet. . . .

Let's talk about this first. Work through the rest of the hand later.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero is in the CO w/ Q/images/graemlins/club.gif8/images/graemlins/heart.gif

5 coldcalls to me. I 3-bet. . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

This reminded me of the commentary track on one of the WPT Season 2 episodes, where they're talking about Gus Hansen and how all of his stories start out something like "So I was in the big blind with 73 offsuit, under the gun raised 5 times the blind so I call. The flop is K 4 2, he bets t50,000, and I call..." /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, I'm not one of those guys that can quote back the odds of everything on cue, but I'm not really sure that Q8o even has a +EV vs. 1 random hand, let alone 6. I'm also not a B&M player, but this one goes into the muck preflop for me, regardless of what kind of crap the others are playing (unless the "horrible, slightly maniacal" read on UTG means that he will bet & raise every street with anything and then fold HU to a river 8-bet).

[Schizo]

[ QUOTE ]

Hero is in the CO w/ Q8

I 3-bet. . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

ewwww

Avatar and title do justice????

[rmarotti]

Ouch.

FWIW, I think PF here sucks too. I was bored, convinced myself I was probably ahead of at least half the field, and wanted to knock out the button. I'm more interested in the postflop play, which I'll post in a minute, but I'll wait to see if anyone can find a reasonable justification for my 3-bet. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Haupt_234]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm more interested in the postflop play, which I'll post in a minute, but I'll wait to see if anyone can find a reasonable justification for my 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. I don't get it at all. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Haupt_234

[Dudd]

Edit: Didn't see the five cold calls, so yeah, I'm not sure what this gets you.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]


Hero is in the CO w/ Q/images/graemlins/club.gif8/images/graemlins/heart.gif

5 coldcalls to me. I 3-bet. . . .

Let's talk about this first. Work through the rest of the hand later.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe if they were sooted or at least Q9o

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if this isolates yourself against the maniac, then I don't think it's too bad

[/ QUOTE ]
There were five cold callers

[rmarotti]

If you really think Q9o is OK, then Q8o can't be all that bad.

[shant]

Trying to knock the button out is a good reason and since this is the 9/18, the SB was probably going to 3-bet anyway and then MP1 would probably look at the dealer, and without breaking eye contact say, "He 3-bet? OKKKKK CAP IT" while slamming in 6 more chips and you'd be paying 4-bets to see the flop anyway, so yeah, 3-betting here makes more sense than calling.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
If you really think Q9o is OK, then Q8o can't be all that bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was joking... i think Q10s would be my minimum.

[rmarotti]

Horrible button calls three cold. Blinds call. All call.

Flop:

Q/images/graemlins/spade.gifJ/images/graemlins/spade.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif

OK, not a horrible flop, but by no means a great one. I have a super dirty gutshot, my 2 pair outs are tainted, but I have top pair, which has seemed to be a remarkably strong hand at this table, even multiway.

A horrible, but relatively straightforward player, leads from the SB, all call to me and I call. SBs hand range here is pretty wide. He would have 3-bet AK PF. 89 is a possibility, but any pair or two pair hand is possible to.

Thoughts?

Edited to include the rest of the PF action /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[rmarotti]

How serious are you? 30% ?

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
How serious are you? 30% ?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, about that much. I'm serious in that if I was going to play this hand, I think getting the button is the best reason to 3-bet. I think the 9/18 is so insanely aggressive that I'd have a hard time knowing where I'm at with a lot of flops, so I'd probably puss out and fold.

[rmarotti]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif this table, with the exception of the semi-maniac was fairly (and atypically) passive. Raises were generally to be taken seriously.

[Michael Davis]

I don't play the 9-18 anymore, but it's reputation was always psychorecklessaggressive when that was far from the truth.

Anyways, I think this hand is pretty miserable and since you are obviously going to have to hit hard to win I don't really see what buying you the button gets you. Once the pot gets swelled to this size, the importance (and likelihood) of saving bets postflop has diminished.

-Michael

[rmarotti]

Yah, like I said, I know I played this horribly PF and should've folded, but I'm interested in my postflop play after getting myself into such a dumb situation.

BTW, thanks for taking the time to comment on the post of a relative n00b such as myself.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop:

Q/images/graemlins/spade.gifJ/images/graemlins/spade.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif

A horrible, but relatively straightforward player, leads from the SB, all call to me and I....

[/ QUOTE ]

....raise, fully confident in your ability to hit runner runner quads.

But, seriously...pot that big, I don't see what else you can do but call.

[rmarotti]

My thoughts exactly. Turn blanks, same player bets, only the atrocious BB calls. I call?

[Klepton]

i used to play the commerce 9-18, and

1) i'm suprised no one capped it
2) if it was suited, there is definite arguement for 3-betting, but this is spewing and you know it

3) call the flop, call the turn, and bet the river if you improve. If opponent bets the river again, fold, as at the commerce 9/18, you have to have a straight or better to ever bet the river. If you noticed no one ever bets the river with just one pair (i'm talking about all hands, not just this one).

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
If you really think Q9o is OK, then Q8o can't be all that bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gross, Q9o is awful. QJo would suck too.

[rmarotti]

[ QUOTE ]
If you noticed no one ever bets the river with just one pair (i'm talking about all hands, not just this one).

[/ QUOTE ]

I noticed nothing of the sort.

[Klepton]

i was half joking, but at all commerce games, they are extremely passive on the river, it seems to me like this player will only bet the river with 2pair or better, and in some cases, might check his 2pair

river? action?

[rmarotti]

River's another blank. Bet, call, call. I chop with the SBs Q6o

[Klepton]

once again, the commerce 9/18 never ceases (sp?) to amaze me

how long are you in town for, i missed that big get together, ehard it was fun

[rmarotti]

I'm already back in NY /images/graemlins/frown.gif The get together was fun for those who split my 5 racks /images/graemlins/tongue.gif I can't wait to get back and play more in that 9/18 game, it's everything everybody told me it would be.