worst bluff ever?

[starvs]

#Game No : 2090000627
***** Hand History for Game 2090000627 *****
NL Hold'em $5 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:12440453 Level:4 Blinds(50/100) - Sunday, May 22, 20:19:19 EDT 2005
Table Table 12012 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 10: starvs ( $1230 )
Seat 4: erik2333 ( $3045 )
Seat 8: sheraa ( $2260 )
Seat 2: DHBuga ( $510 )
Seat 9: kimujuku ( $955 )
Trny:12440453 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to starvs [ Jc Kh ]
sheraa folds.
kimujuku folds.
starvs raises [300].
DHBuga folds.
erik2333 calls [200].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6s, 7c, 4h ]
erik2333 checks.
starvs is all-In [930]

Tried a steal preflop (should I just have pushed?), when I got called I was planning on pushing and king or jack, but when he checked to me on a pretty innocuous flop I figured he most likely completely missed (of course a set or overpair are always possible). Anyone else make this play, or am I just alone on this one?

Thanks
-starvs

[Bigwig]

I like it.

[lastchance]

You are a losing player if you don't bet this 90+% of the time, and I think I push preflop.

[bluefeet]

If it is a steal you are attempting, I would just assume you push PF. You put 1/4 of your chips in the raise, leaving <10xBB. Short of a true monster that you would want some action from chip dog, I would just push one like this. You're not bleeding yet, but I think this is a fine hand to pick up a set of blinds.

To answer your question -- I push the flop. No turning back at this point (with any luck you have the table image representative of your move).

[starvs]

Ok, I figured it was the right play (if I dont get it all in pre fop), was probably just being results oriented. Called by an OESD which ended up catching a running flush.

How about this play I just made, really not sure about this.

Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: milkmister ( $1120 )
Seat 2: OUMomX2 ( $680 )
Seat 4: Jadejim ( $1245 )
Seat 6: pokermom0308 ( $1780 )
Seat 8: spanky1212 ( $1305 )
Seat 9: TRIPLEL_LLL ( $990 )
Seat 10: starvs ( $880 )
Trny:12441592 Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to starvs [ Qc 9d ]
OUMomX2 folds.
Jadejim calls [50].
pokermom0308 folds.
spanky1212 folds.
TRIPLEL_LLL folds.
starvs calls [25].
milkmister checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9h, 3h, 5d ]
starvs bets [120].
>You have options at Table 12798 Table!.
milkmister raises [240].
Jadejim folds.
starvs calls [120].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kc ]
starvs is all-In [590]

Really not sure what I was beating that re raised me on the flop, but I did it anyways. Alot of the times I dont even complete there, is that good or bad?

Thanks
-starvs

[bluefeet]

I would not have completed PF. Just NO WAY to play this stuff post flop. Baring 2 pair, set, odds to a draw, etc....check/fold the flop.

[starvs]

[ QUOTE ]

I would not have completed PF. Just NO WAY to play this stuff post flop. Baring 2 pair, set, odds to a draw, etc....check/fold the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I figured completing could have been the biggest problem there. Not really sure what I was doing post flop, guess I just don't like money.

[CWolf]

In the future, use this hand converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi) for posting hand histories. It makes it much more readable.

On to your play. I disagree that he should push preflop. He still has over 9xBB if he gets called then bet out on the flop, or reraised, which is plenty enough to steal in the next few hands. If he had say 9xBB before he chose to raise, then I would say push, since you're investing a third of your stack. But when you're only investing <25%, you can still manage to fold to a reraise.

From the looks of it, the BB was a very loose player with a big stack, but your flop bet was very good.

Well done on the first hand.

The second hand should never have seen a flop.

[bluefeet]

Understandable to want to take the pot down with TP. The problem is, short of a push in the dark, it's unlikely you get the TP (better kicker maybe), draws, 2 overs, etc.etc., to lay it down. More troubling is you cannot define you hand - nor, can you gain much information from their hands.

Taking the situation for what it is...Q is not a terrible kicker. But the problem check/calling even a modest bet, is that most likely everyone else will too. By the time the turn/river comes, it will be highly unlikely that 9 will still be TP.

It is 'only' three handed, and there was no PF raise. About the only plausible move having gotten to the flop, is to lead out with a small 1/3-1/2 bet. Maybe it will be your lucky day and they'll all say "to hell with it..missed my hand". Any call and you're check/folding until improvement.

[Nottom]

Why does everyone want to push preflop? When did the 10BB rule become the 12.3 BB rule?

[bluefeet]

I don't disagree with you at all. As I vagly alluded to, I didn't believe his position required that he steal the blinds. I think a fold/limp PF are perfectly fine choices (I'd probably fold). My advise was related to him 'trying to steal'. I DO like my chances with 12.3bb, and would find a better opportunity. But if stealing if was my only choice (posters intent), I would rather push than have to fold to a missed/bet flop by villian...leaving <10bb.

Perhaps a "I understand you want to do 'x', but 'y' or 'z' aren't bad either" answer would have been a little more helpful.

[Nottom]

I'd raise KJo in this spot about 100% of the time and it would almost never be all-in. I guess its a "steal" but its usually a steal with the best hand.

If I get raised I fold and still have over 9BBs and have plenty of chips to work with.

[Nick M]

I like a push preflop but this is fine too. You have to bet. If you don't how are you ever going to steal again in this SNG. One of the reasons steals work is because will know that you're getting all the money in there no matter what...but in reality you wouldn't unless you have a good shot of making him fold.