Ethics Question, Are You a Man of Your "Word?"

[MeanGreenTT]

Odball situation...

You just got to the final table, 9 of you left out of the 151 that started. A "poker friend" comes over before play starts and says, "hey, let's split it if it gets down to you and me." You half jokingly reply, "ok, sounds good to me," knowing that's a longshot anyway...Going into the final table you have approximately T7500 with Blinds at 1000/2000 and your friend has approximately T16000, total chips in play is T105000.

You double though the big-stack. Players 7 and 8 go down. You take out players 6 and 5. The 2 short stacks do battle and it's down to 3. You take out player 3 and it's heads-up.

Lo and behold, it's just you and your friend. You really haven't even given "the deal" a second thought since before the final table started as you were really concentrating. You have T65,000 and friend has T40,000.

As you're settling in for heads-up play, stacking the chips from the dispatched player, before the cards are dealt, your friend asks, "we gonna chop it, you said you would" smiling as he does...

What would you do? $1500 for 1st and $650 for 2nd

[TT_fold]

Yes, I would chop here. Even I lacked ethics, chopping here is not that different $EV-wise from playing out the tournament. In fact, some unethical but risk-averse individuals might prefer to take the lower-variance route and chop it anyway.

[A_PLUS]

Why not? Has he been banging your sister/girlfriend/mom, during the final table? If not, I dont how you couldnt.

Basically your question is this:
My friend and I made a deal. I agreed b/c I didnt think it would ever happen, and given the current information, it would be more likely to help me. Well, it turns out, IT DID HAPPEN, and it may actually hurt me a little. I can back out, right? That would be like your insurance company saying "Hell no, I never really thought you would smash your car"

[Lloyd]

Without a doubt you chop this. If I was your friend and you didn't, we'd no longer be friends.

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
Without a doubt you chop this. If I was your friend and you didn't, we'd no longer be friends.

[/ QUOTE ]

[MeanGreenTT]

Just so everyone knows, I did make the chop but requested to be listed as the winner for input to CardPlayer magazine and be awarded the "gold" coin for 1st, he got the silver for 2nd /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[A_PLUS]

It sure beats having to walk around with a black eye.

[Rushmore]

I can't even believe you think there's a question about it.

And by the way, the proper thing to do would be to agree to chop the prize money and then PLAY for the prestige/Card Player/gold coin/whatever.

You didn't say there was anything in the deal about whoever was ahead gets the bragging rights.

Note to self: If MeanGreenTT enters into a deal with you, make sure he understands what the terms are, and that the deal is binding.

Jeez.

[LethalRose]

I dont think its a matter of ethics its a matter of how good of a friend he is.

[Lloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
Just so everyone knows, I did make the chop but requested to be listed as the winner for input to CardPlayer magazine and be awarded the "gold" coin for 1st, he got the silver for 2nd /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
That is completely reasonable.

[Lloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think its a matter of ethics its a matter of how good of a friend he is.

[/ QUOTE ]
So you're saying if he wasn't a good friend, or if in fact you didn't even know the guy that well, you'd back out of it?

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think its a matter of ethics its a matter of how good of a friend he is.

[/ QUOTE ]
So you're saying if he wasn't a good friend, or if in fact you didn't even know the guy that well, you'd back out of it?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I think he is saying, if MeanGreen is a good friend, it is an easy chop. (and it isn't even close)

[MeanGreenTT]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't even believe you think there's a question about it.

Note to self: If MeanGreenTT enters into a deal with you, make sure he understands what the terms are, and that the deal is binding.

Jeez.

[/ QUOTE ]

There wasn't a question for me at all, when he asked, I didn't miss a beat before agreeing.

And I agree on the advice about the "bragging rights" stuff. I'll admit I'm still a relative newbie and didn't expect we'd actually be in this position, hence the little thought given to the actual deal.

I hope you don't think I'm a dope, I've noticed you're here in Tampa and was hoping to be able to talk cards one of these days.

[LethalRose]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think its a matter of ethics its a matter of how good of a friend he is.

[/ QUOTE ]
So you're saying if he wasn't a good friend, or if in fact you didn't even know the guy that well, you'd back out of it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would never make a deal similar to this so thats not even an issue. however if I said i would chop i would chop

[Percula]

Yep you have to chop, anything else is going to make trouble. Remember you are going to be playing with these people in the future, and you dont need to the trouble. You are there to have a good time and to make some coin.

BTW, I never say I will chop. Yes I hear the same thing time and time again playing live. When the tournament director lays out the rules including "deals", I tell everyone at the table, "no deals, but I might consider a deal when we are HU". It has got to the point that the tournament director at my favorite B&M, lets everyone at the table know that there will be no deals made until someone busts me out. LOL

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
There wasn't a question for me at all, when he asked, I didn't miss a beat before agreeing.

And I agree on the advice about the "bragging rights" stuff. I'll admit I'm still a relative newbie and didn't expect we'd actually be in this position, hence the little thought given to the actual deal.

I hope you don't think I'm a dope, I've noticed you're here in Tampa and was hoping to be able to talk cards one of these days.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had just busted out of the Stars $215 in 87th out of 2600+, so I guess maybe I was a little cranky.

My point was valid, though, regardless.

Please tell me you know where there's some decent action in this stupid town. I can't tell you how much I wanted to vomit on both of the occasions I dragged my ass to the Hard Rock Donk and Mope Club. Awful, just awful.

[ur2god]

i agree with this guy

[Blindcurve]

Quick answer before I read the rest of the thread: I'd say , "I'm 120% willing to chop this up. But lets play for something , you know, for s---s and giggles." I'd try for 900 a piece and play for the rest. But if he wanted a straight up split, I do it because I said I would and he's my friend. Heck, I might need a loan someday.

[MeanGreenTT]

Thanks for the replies guys...as I said, it really wasn't a question for me when he asked but I'll definitely think more about terms, etc before I "jokingly agree" again /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
I had just busted out of the Stars $215 in 87th out of 2600+, so I guess maybe I was a little cranky.

My point was valid, though, regardless.

Please tell me you know where there's some decent action in this stupid town. I can't tell you how much I wanted to vomit on both of the occasions I dragged my ass to the Hard Rock Donk and Mope Club. Awful, just awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

No worries, I didn't take it too harshly and as you said, you are right /images/graemlins/smile.gif

As for the action here, with the obvious outlets for limit play being only $1/2 I'm sure you're avoiding that like the plague as am I. Limit's not my normal game anyway as I cut my teeth on the tournaments at Derby Lane and TampaBay Downs. I just recently played some live limit while in St Louis and Louisville, both 3/6 and 5/10, also played some 2/5 NL /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I've heard mixed reviews about the Ocean Jewel with shuttles running out of John's Pass. Bad in the sense that you're at the mercy of the weather and the 45 minute shuttle out and back to the boat. Small room, etc.

But I've also heard from more than a few people about how soft the games are, a couple dealers that play there after dealing the tourney, etc. Highest limit I heard is 3/6 but they've been known to open higher limits if the players are there. 2/5 NL with a max $300 buy-in I believe.....LOOSE!

I'm taking the next 2 weeks off and plan on checking out the Jewel this week...I'll also play some tournies at Derby and will most likely play a few satellites for the big Hard Rock Tourney at the end of the month, I hear the stt's there are also good.

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm taking the next 2 weeks off and plan on checking out the Jewel this week...I'll also play some tournies at Derby and will most likely play a few satellites for the big Hard Rock Tourney at the end of the month, I hear the stt's there are also good.

[/ QUOTE ]

The tourney structure at the Hard Rock is awful. After the break, it almost doesn't matter how many chips you have, it's a crapshoot.

That said, I understand that when they run the stt's, you can easily sell your seat for $200 at the rail. Although this doesn't strike me as the wisest way to spend one's time, I gather there are folks playing these satellites all day, just doing this.

I hate the place too much to go back, though. I think I just need to accept the fact that there isn't any real poker here.

By the way, I got turned on to two different bigger-money home games (20/40 limit, 5/10 PL), but then when the time came to play, each time I got a call saying they were full and would call if they needed another player, etc.

Bah. It's a tradeoff, the weather for poker. I guess it's ok.

[nightlyraver]

Anyone who I play cards with who I would consider a "friend" would have to be one of a select few individuals who are in fact very close friends with me. If I said I would split, that prize pool is gonna get split, bottom line. Now, if we're talking about Larry, Curly or Moe sitting in some card room - [censored] them, I'm keeping the big prize if I win it.

[MeanGreenTT]

[ QUOTE ]
The tourney structure at the Hard Rock is awful. After the break, it almost doesn't matter how many chips you have, it's a crapshoot.

I think I just need to accept the fact that there isn't any real poker here.

Bah. It's a tradeoff, the weather for poker. I guess it's ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree about the Hard Rock, the structure is HORRIBLE!!! I've played out there once in that $240 event but the similiar structure is one of the reasons I stopped playing at Derby too. You really have to adjust due to the starting chips and rounds.

Tampa Downs has nightly tournaments at 6:30, usually 100+ people for $45. top 9 paid, start with T1000 and same 20 minute rounds but there's a 75/100 round that Derby doesn't.

I'll play in a few of the Satellites to see if I can seat into the $500+50 event next week, not bad for $80 and at least the structure for that one is a little better with T2500 to start, 25/50 and 1 rebuy and 1 addon, each for $100.

I agree with ya in general about the state of poker down here but I'm a native and most likely won't live anywhere else...I'm nowhere near doing this for a living as a lot on here are but I'm enjoying success and learning all the time, having fun and getting paid to do something I like /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'll let you know about the Ocean Jewel, at least that might be an option...I'm in the Citrus Park area so just about everything is close for me.