4 to Broadway

[Michael Emery]

So I've been feeling a little confused lately as to what to do with hands like these, specifically flopping a gutshot to broadway against a few opponents. For ex. having AK and raising utg, two callers in MP, then the flop coming 4 J Q rainbow, and such. I posted a hand below like this. In this hand I was first to act throughout. What about if I was last to act? Who likes a bet and who likes just checking then? I think I'm firing too much on the flop with hands like these. Thoughts appreciated.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks.

River: (6 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB

[KDawgCometh]

I think I'm firing the turn and check/folding UI on the river. Of course, if raised on the turn it'd be a pretty easy fold

[Pokey]

As to this hand, I agree with KDawg: bet/fold the turn, check/fold UI on the river.

Note that AK with a flop of QJ4o is VERY different from your current situation. First, with AK you've got two overcards to the board, giving you six outs to TPTK. With AQ on this board, you've got three overcards to TP2K and three more outs to 2PTK. Those queens aren't as strong, especially with three opponents. Furthermore, you've got two diamonds on this board, meaning that outs will be harder to clean and you're going to have to fear any additional board diamonds.

Still, when the board pairs those kings, you've really got to bet them. Nobody raised your flop bet and you've shown lots of aggression; you could easily have trips, and your opponents are going to be soiling themselves over it. I expect that a turn bet folds out two or more of your opponents. Of course, any diamond draw is still going to call and bust you on the river here, but you spins the wheel and you takes your chances. Betting this turn improves your chances of winning enough that it's a +EV move.

[damaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
As to this hand, I agree with KDawg: bet/fold the turn, check/fold UI on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Curious about this, we're getting 9:1 to call it, and often better if someone else calls before (or after) the raise. We DO have a gutshot, even though we might want to discount it with a paired board and the fact that there will a lot of paint, making a boat more likely. Still folding?

[KDawgCometh]

yup. I don't think that we have good implied odds here to make a call of a raise on the turn

[bakku]

Bet/folding the turn is no good at all, I hope people are kidding. Betting the turn is pretty pointless, you're not getting everyone to fold, you don't want to get raised, and you're OOP with a hand you don't really want to showdown on the river UI. You played this hand well.

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'm firing the turn and check/folding UI on the river. Of course, if raised on the turn it'd be a pretty easy fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Firing the turn seems retarded.