Calling allin from mp with 84s

[shejk]

***** Hand History for Game 2089055186 *****
NL Hold'em $100 Buy-in + $9 Entry Fee Trny:12434558 Level:6 Blinds(150/300) - Sunday, May 22, 17:15:52 EDT 2005
Table Table 35332 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 2: WSUbobcat ( $2075 )
Seat 3: shum37 ( $1335 )
Seat 6: DallinJ ( $1940 )
Seat 7: yggse408 ( $550 )
Seat 9: LACardzPlaya ( $4100 )
Trny:12434558 Level:6
Blinds(150/300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to yggse408 [ 4h 8h ]
DallinJ raises [600].
yggse408 is all-In [550]
LACardzPlaya folds.
WSUbobcat folds.
shum37 folds.

[NYCNative]

I probably wait until I can dictate the action. You have one more hand - how can it be worse than this?

That said, you probably have two live cards and can win 34-40% of the time against two overs. Being short-stacked with 2BB left, that's about as good as it gets.

Still, I wait. I'll bet you catch better than 84s and you can dictate the all-in rather than call off your chips into a raiser.

[shejk]

It is quite likely that noone else calls, which is why I call. I will get better pot odds now than later.

[microbet]

Why?

This post and the one about folding AA have to be put into a particle accelerator and smashed into each other.

[Newt_Buggs]

At first I could not figure why you would ever do this, but I think that I'm starting to see it now. I think a major factor is your read on UTG. running into a big pocket here would be very bad, but otherwise this could be a good play that I would have never even considered.

[microbet]

No one else calling gives you worse pot odds.

[dfscott]

You're certainly not losing UTG, you have players left behind you that could call, and your hand is in the bottom quarter of hands.

I'm waiting for the next hand.

[holdem2000]

Aren't you going to end up with 3 way action a large portion of the time? The BB is getting about 5:1 for less than 1/3 of his non-posted chips, and doesn't have to worry about getting bluffed out since the side pot will be dry.

[holdem2000]

No one else calling gives him 450 posted in blinds in addition to his double up with only one hand to beat. If he waits a hand, pushes utg and only gets called by the BB, he still only has one hand to beat but only 150 additional blind chips.

[Newt_Buggs]

Work out the math, if you saw that UTG has AK I think that this is an easy call since you will probably push out the blinds. You have no FE but UTG does which you can cash in off of here. I think that the problem with this play is that you're screwed if he has a big pocket

[shejk]

utg isn't allin, I think the bb will fold as much as if utg pushed, especially since he cannot expect fe with a push over the top.

[shejk]

I'm not giving utg much credit.

[microbet]

Yes, no one else calling gives him better odds of winning the hand, but worse pot odds.

I still fold.

[microbet]

What difference does that make?

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
It is quite likely that noone else calls

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure about that? The raise is a mini. I understand the idea of getting protection from an earlier raiser when your fold equity is gone, but I want something to play with here. J9s, K4o. Anything. 84s is nothing. The odds are overwhelming that at best you're 2-1 dog.

[NYCNative]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not giving utg much credit.

[/ QUOTE ]That's too bad. If he's got crap like Q8 you're dominated. You'd rather he have two big unpaired cards. Better still would be a pair of 3s.

[microbet]

That a bit of an assumption that his min-raise will have so much FE.

If he pushed, it would be different. It is an interesting concept, and something I haven't thought of before.

[NYCNative]

[ QUOTE ]
It is quite likely that noone else calls

[/ QUOTE ]BB should call no matter what he has. It's only 300 more into an 1900 pot that he's already in for 300. Even if he figures himself at only about a 15% shot to win it, it's still a smart move to call, I believe.