Yoda

[AleoMagus]

Well, here I am bored, and posting in OOT. Lord help me.

Anyways, last night I went and saw the new Star Wars movie, and had some thoughts about one reason why I hated the last 2 movies so much. The latest movie is also bad for the same reason.

Yoda has been ruined as a character, and the whole essence of what made him who he is in the original movies has been stripped away.

In the original movies, I'm not sure if George Lucas got lucky, or if he was a better writer, BUT Yoda is a terrific character and really helps crystalize just what it means to be a Jedi, and how one should live in accordance with the principles of the Jedi.

Primarily, we see that he places no stake in appearances, and carries no pride regarding his powers. He does not use the force lightly, and in fact, his true wisdom and greatest power resides in his humility.

Like Luke Skywalker, when viewers were first confronted with the thought that Yoda was a great and powerful Jedi Master, we expect a character larger than life. We expect a kind of Darth Vader for good. It is this expectation that indicates to us how much Luke, and we, have to learn.

When we realize the truth, that this little green, apparently frail, and somewhat humorous old man is Yoda, we see and become aware of his great power gradually, and come to respect it all the more.

In Yoda there is no hubris. Yoda does not open doors with the force. Yoda does not pick up objects with the force just to make his day easier. Yoda does not seek adulation and is content to be thought a fool. He possesses true wisdom, and it is this nature that gives us a taste of the truly fearful power he possesses. It turns out that he IS the antithesis of Darth Vader, but where we expected a tall, powerful, white knight of a Jedi, we realize now that this is not an antithesis at all. A small, comic, little old man is.

Our own lust for vengeance and our own weakness makes us want to see Yoda kick some ass, but when he never does, we realize that this is how it must be. His power resides in the truth that he doesn't need to fight. He knows that Vader is a great force for evil, and he knows that Luke must confront Vader, be we get a sense that this is not about Defeating Vader at all. This is about Luke overcoming his own hate, and his own inner struggle with the dark side of the force.

The original episodes pulled this off brilliantly, and I can honestly say that as an impressionable child, I learned a great deal from them about what I thought wisdom and true power must be.

Somehow this has been forgotten

In the last 2 movies, I could feel it coming all the way. Yoda is floating around all the time. He is opening doors with the force, and he is pretty much always surrounded by some kind of force effect. We hear a reference in the first or second movie even that Yoda is some kind of lightsaber master. Ugh.

And then it happens in episode 2. Yoda and Count Dooku fight. I absolutely cringed when it happened and yet in the whole movie, this is the point at which the theater let out the biggest cheers. A new generation of kids are learning that when you are pushed, wisdom and wit is no way to prevail. You need to pull out your lightsaber and fight it out with all of your brute force (actually, I think yoda doesn't even pull his lighsaber out. I think he uses the force for that too). They are learning that power is wasted if you do not use it, and that if we can do a thing, we pretty much always should if it makes our day easier. Besides, this way, everyone will know how great you are because they will have proof. Forget subtlety and forget trancendent wisdom. Now we are left with Lightning bolts and lightsaber duels as the culmination of Jedi teachings.

In this latest movie, Yoda fights again, this time with the emporer himself. It's more of the same, with lots of levitation and electricity. Yoda flips and jumps all over the place with his lightsaber and in the end, the effect is exactly the opposite of what I supect the intent was. Yoda does not appear more powerful, he appears far less powerful.

Ok, Ok... maybe this is not so bad. After all, these movies are set in the past right? Maybe Yoda learns a thing or two in his exile on Dagobah? I don't buy it.

Like so many parts of these new movies, Lucas just wanted things to be bigger, better and flashier, and he ruined the greater themes of the story while trying to do it. My biggest fear though is that this is just what a lot of people wanted to see, and most might be happy with bigger, better and flashier.

I wonder... to the average ten year old today, does Yoda earns more respect by kicking ass and being an action hero, or would he earn it more my just being the character he was in the originals? What would I have thought of the two competing yoda's if I saw them both at the age of ten? I think I might also have cheered yoda fighting and enjoyed seeing his power, but I would have been mislead I think. I would have missed out on a valuable life lesson.

Sigh... Don't even get me started on midi-chlorines (WTF?) and the move from sci-fantasy to political sci-fi!

Oh well, I am still bored. opinions?

Regards
Brad S

[The Yugoslavian]

Art of peace >>>>>>>>>>>> Art of war

Lucas lost his way, /images/graemlins/frown.gif....

But, the fundamentals are still there in the movies....just obscured by the dark side.

Yugoslav
Who hasn't seen the third new one yet...

[peachy]

ditto

[Rotating Rabbit]

Great post.

When you say you dont buy it that yoda learnt more since going into exile - dont you think the ability to be immortal and be one with the force after death would alter perspective?

I agree that the unanswered questions hanging over yoda in series 4-6 are extremely effective- rather like when you're fond of a girl who has secrets about her past, and you never find out, say. It does seem that Lucas fluked this effect. Recently, stories have done well because their creator actually has an properly big storyline for the past, that's implied in the present - but never seen. Eg harry potter.

Its sad that Lucas has gone that extra mile to generate revenue (eg pod race, un-necessarily long fighter scenes at the start of ep3, jar jar, action scenes and no dialogue) when he could have made the films more profound and still got 90% of the profit potential.

But the brilliance of the secrets of Yoda's abilities HAVE to be displayed in I-III, no realistic plot could avoid it. Its inconceivable that Yoda could be on dagobah without having confronted the emperor 'Do not underestimate the power of the emperor'. What's regrettable is that we see so much, and the frills. Yoda vs Dooku was a terrible shame.

Ideally, in my opinion, we should have seen yoda being ultra-humble all the way through I-III; being ultra-respected by all the jedi, but never once using any force power, and only at the very end, in the closing minutes of III, do we see yoda confront the emperor - echoing rotj.

[TStoneMBD]

i like your post.

as a person of the new generation, having seen the first 3 episodes before 4, 5 and 6, my opinions are yoda are bound to be different than yours. i have just seen new hope and empire strikes back and have to say that i was a bit dissapointed with the character of yoda in esb. when he first presented himself to luke, he was a goofy jokeball, which surprised me. he then came to life and became the yoda we all know.

i understand your feeling that using wisdom and wit is greater than using combat. however, it a time of war in star wars, how do you expect yoda not to fight? it is a necessary evil. i think watching yoda use his powers along with a lightsaber is one of the coolest parts of star wars. i wish i got to see more of yoda kicking ass, but unfortunately it appears that the trilogy has ended.

[bort411]

These are my problems with Yoda, inspired by this post:

He walks gingerly with a cane, unless there's fighting to be done, in which case he displays remarkable agility. This doesn't really make sense to me. Is he old and arthritic, or just faking it? Does he need to soak in a hot tub for 3 weeks after doing battle? That's the best excuse I can come up with and if this is the case, perhaps he should retire, because him breaking a hip isn't going to help anything.

Also, much of his prowess seems to be from his dueling ability, which I feel is strongly enhanced by his size; he's just such a tough target. This is also a bit confusing, as I wonder why none of the other jedi adopted his jumping-spinning strategy. Where are the other creatures of Yoda's species, and why hasn't someone assembled an army of these nimble midgets? Lord knows there's an army of everything else.

Lastly, after seeing this movie, I really have concerns about his wisdom. After fighting to a respectable draw with the sith lord, Yoda decides to pack it up and go into exile. Further, he supports the idea that Luke should live on Darth Vader's home planet, with the name Skywalker, as the best strategy for "hiding" him.

The end of episode 3 shows him as a quitter and severly lacking wisdom; it just doesn't fit.

[TStoneMBD]

i also felt the same way about yoda packing up and moving to this swampland. why isn't leading the rebellion or something? it also didnt occur to me that yoda sent luke to live on the same planet as vader's previous home. the fact that yoda didnt change his name is also very confusing.

[AleoMagus]

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i have just seen new hope and empire strikes back and have to say that i was a bit dissapointed with the character of yoda in esb.

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This makes me sad

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when he first presented himself to luke, he was a goofy jokeball, which surprised me.

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This surprised you because you had seen Yoda fight already and knew who he was. Imagine instead being surprised when the little green jokeball turns out to be the Jedi master.

It is the realization that this funy little muppet is the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy that makes us look deeper when we think about what power really is, and what mastery of the force really is. It is without pride and it is not about our usual conceptions of might at all.

A comparison that comes to mind is atticus finch in 'to kill a mockingbird'. No, Atticus finch is not a comical character, but he is a character who is seen by his children as somehow weak. He is not, his children would suppose, a manly character who might be a skilled at (say) firing a rifle, but when the time comes, they discover it. And, when they do, they realize that their father is a much more powerful figure than they could before have imagined.

This happens in life all the time. When we accidentally discover a person's hidden talents and respect them all the more because they are so talented, it seems, that they are beyond all need or caring for recognition or even effect.

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a time of war in star wars, how do you expect yoda not to fight?

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The same way he didn't fight in the originals I guess. The same way so many truly wise people have avoided conflict in our own world. I am not talking about weakness or submission here either. I am talking about the conquering of ones enemies through other means. It is possible. In fact, Luke does it in the end of ROTJ.

At very least, I'd like to have seen the fight come to Yoda instead of the other way around.

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i think watching yoda use his powers along with a lightsaber is one of the coolest parts of star wars.

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This makes me even more sad.

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i wish i got to see more of yoda kicking ass

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Ok, now I am just depressed

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the trilogy has ended

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Phew. Your post ended on a high after all. Seriously though, watch the original movies and try to look past the special effects and the cool action sequences of the latest movies. I think you will come to understand why so many original fans feel the fundamental themes have been stripped away.

The first movies, after all, were not really a sci-fi story at all. It was Fantasy in Sci fi clothing. We have a Wizard, an apprentice, a princess, a pirate, and an evil sorcerer! Through it all, we question what good and evil are and where power really comes from. We have the Dark side, ruled by ambition, greed, and pride... And we have the Good side, ruled by compassion, selflessness, and less earthly goals.

Then episodes I-III come along and it is all sci fi. The force is no longer mysterious, it is scientific, complete with midichlorines. The Jedi are no longer mysterious wizards, but members of a political organization, complete with their own beauracracy!

UGH.

Your sentiments are understandable, but they still represent my fears - that so many like yourself understand and identify with these new movies more than the originals.

Regards
Brad S

[TStoneMBD]

i have not grown to become attached to moral and philosophical intricacies presented by the episode series, because they are not strong in that suit. i love the episode series because it is an amazing story, amazing graphics, amazing action and an amazing trilogy. i dont expect star wars to deliver what the meaning of life is to me and didnt realize that this was what the 70s generation loved about the movie.

an example of the this discrepancy is in that of music. you have these songs from the 70s and 80s that many adults love so dearly, feeling that they possess the meaning of life and have an all-powerful philosophical value. you have people of the new generations listening to the older music, realizing that this music is of poorer production than the music of current and dont appreciate it for the same philosophical reasons that others do.

i dont appreciate the movie for philosophical value the same way that you do. i get philosophical value out of other means, and that should be fine.

[Rotating Rabbit]

I agree 100% with this.

[Dynasty]

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He walks gingerly with a cane, unless there's fighting to be done, in which case he displays remarkable agility. This doesn't really make sense to me. Is he old and arthritic, or just faking it?

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If you really want and answer, Yoda's gingerly walking is genuine. When he's in combat, he uses the force for the agility he displays. He chooses not to use the force for normal physical activities.

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I wonder why none of the other jedi adopted his jumping-spinning strategy.

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It's really, really hard.

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Where are the other creatures of Yoda's species, and why hasn't someone assembled an army of these nimble midgets?

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Yaddle was a member of the Jedi Council in The Phantom Menace. She was killed in a novel later. She's the only other member of Yoda's unnamed species to be seen. Here's a picture of her from the film.

http://www.artoosnews.com/artooscustoms/imagearchive/images/characters/jedicouncil/yaddle.jpg

Any army of "Yodas" hasn't been assmembled because it would provide no advantage. Being a "Yoda" doesn't give you any special ability.

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After fighting to a respectable draw with the sith lord, Yoda decides to pack it up and go into exile. Further, he supports the idea that Luke should live on Darth Vader's home planet, with the name Skywalker, as the best strategy for "hiding" him.

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What could Yoda do? The Emperor controled the entire political structure of the Republic/Empire. The Senate actually voted to install Palpatine as a permanent Emperor. He also controlled the entire military. The Clone Army was programmed to be completely loyal to the Emperor. In addition, the Jedi were discredit for attacking and disfiguring the Emperor.

The Emperor's victory over the jedi was as complete as it could get. All that was left for Yoda and Kenobi to do was retreat and find a way to win.

As far as hiding Luke, it appears Yoda was right. Nobody ever discovered his presence there.

[[censored]]

Just to add onto Dynasty's answers. Luke is able to be hidden, even with the Skywalker name, because any observers from the outside would assume him to be the son of Owen and his wife.

Besides one of the most critical events from Ep 3 is the faking of te children's death along with Padame. Vader believes them to be dead so he would not actively seek them out either physically or with the force.

[KDawgCometh]

About Luke on Tatooine, after watching Phantom Menace again, its noted that the Republic/Empire doesn't real have much penetration on Tatooine. So it'd be easy to hide him there as the Empire oesn't really pay much attention to it. Remember, Qui-Gon said that if Anikan had been born in the Republic, that he would've been identified at a young age, but becasue of Tatooine's remoteness, he wasn't

[[censored]]

At some point Yoda needed to fight but I agree with other's that this would have been more powerful if it was held off until a confrontation with Darth Sideous.

The more I think about it, the more I believe Mace Windu should have played a larger role through out the trilogy. He should have been the General Jedi leading the clone army and facing off with Count Dukoo in part 2.

Meanwhile Yoda would have remained the wise yet peaceful master. This creates a natural tension between Mace -the proactive warrior wanting to take it to the emperor's forces and the wise but passive Yoda wanting to trust in the force. Then once Mace in betrayed and killed, Yoda has no choice but to take action against the emperor himself. The audience then would get a final payoff in Ep 3 of getting to see Yoda fight for the first time instead of in part 2. I think this would have made it much more memorable and powerful to have the "pacifist" Yoda finally pushed into combat at the end.

Additionally this perhaps provides additional motivation for the exile as Yoda deals with the guilt of not acting until it was to late.

[KDawgCometh]

but it made lots of sense for Yoda to fight Dooku as Dooku was his apprentice. Whereas we have no real connection between Mace and Dooku that we know about

[[censored]]

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but it made lots of sense for Yoda to fight Dooku as Dooku was his apprentice. Whereas we have no real connection between Mace and Dooku that we know about

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That's good point. Last week a read one of the latest books which goes into the Dukoo - Yoda relationship more.

I still like the OP's original point that a not so eager to fight Yoda would have been more powerful. I also think that taking the 3 films as a whole the Mace Windu character was underused which ultimately led to his "death" by betrayel not being as powerful as it could have been had been used more in 1 & 2.

[SuitedSixes]

Write this post correctly, did you not.

Why, do you see?

To have you back, nice it is.

[ArchAngel71857]

1. the best part of Yoda "fighting" in Episode II (or any of the prequels) is when Dooku tries to shove a lightning bolt up his ass, and he just lets it absorb into nothing and goes "much to learn you still have." Sounds like the Yoda I know from ESB.

2. One thing that irritates me about Yoda's dialogue in the prequels is every sentence he says is "Yodaized." In ESB and ROTJ, Yoda does not mix around his syntax with every freaking sentence at the cost of clarity. "The cave, remember the cave." "No, There is another." "There is another Skywalker." Not "the cave remember. Another, no, there is." "Skyalker is there another." It's like they wrote all the dialogue for Yoda, then just put the words in a hat and pulled them out. "Around the surviviors, a perimeter create." If I as a clone trooper, all the jedi would have died in episode II because I would have turned around and been like "what? what are you asking me to do?"

3. One thing I'd like explained to me is Obi-wan appearing to Luke Hoth. "You must leanr from Yoda (or something) THE JEDI MASTER WHO TRAINED ME." No he didn't, Qui-Gonn Jinn trained Obi-Wan. and in ROTJ "I thought I could train him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong." It is implied here that obi-wan thought he could train anakin just as well as yoda trained obi-wan. but if yoda didn't train obi-wan then it seems to say "i thought i could train him just as well as yoda trained <his apprentices>." Well, let's look at the apprentice we know Yoda trained, Dooku. Didn't turn out so well, did it? So this statement looks wrong. I guess you could draw the line Yoda->Dooku->Qui-Gonn->Obi-wan->Anakin.

4. Also, no one ever mentions Yoda other than Luke and Obi-wan in ESB and ROTJ. Vader alwasy tells Luke "Obi-Wan has taught you well." Obi-Wan hasn't done [censored]. He put a blast shield and Luke's head and told him to turn off his targeting computer. Yoda rides his back like pissed off ex-girlfriend and makes him lift things while teaching him maxims about the light side of the force. Yet, the Emporer and Vader never say anything about Yoda.

5. If I could "fix the movies," as has been mentioned, I'd make Episode II Episdoe I. Split up Episode III into Episode II. Make the latter part of Episdoe III into a new Episdoe III but make it happen about 3-6 years after ROTS. That way you can have Padme alive with Leia for a bit, you can draw out Anakin's turn to the Dark Side and apprenticeship with Sidious, you could have Obi-wan and Yoda in the first few years they hide and have obi-wan looking in Luke. The end of this one of course would be the saem as ROTS with Anakin losing his body and becoming more machine. But whatever, if you excuse me i have to go polish my lightsaber and not get laid tonight.

-AA

[PhatTBoll]

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4. Also, no one ever mentions Yoda other than Luke and Obi-wan in ESB and ROTJ. Vader alwasy tells Luke "Obi-Wan has taught you well." Obi-Wan hasn't done [censored]. He put a blast shield and Luke's head and told him to turn off his targeting computer. Yoda rides his back like pissed off ex-girlfriend and makes him lift things while teaching him maxims about the light side of the force. Yet, the Emporer and Vader never say anything about Yoda.

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Why would Vader assume that Luke has been training under Yoda? Nobody on the dark side has any reason to believe Yoda is still alive, let alone secretly training untalented actors in the ways of the force. He knows that Obi-Wan was cavorting around with Luke, so he assumed that Obi-Wan gave him his training. Was Luke supposed to say, "Sorry Dad, but Yoda taught me that one." That would be colossally stupid.

Another complaint I had about the continuity between the movies was the way Luke's aunt and uncle feel about Obi-Wan in IV. You'd think they would have a little more compassion for a guy who fought baddies all across the galaxy and went to great lengths to bring their nephew to them. Not only that, but he's a badass jedi who is there mainly to keep an eye on the kid and, by extension, them. I guess you could say that they don't want him to get swallowed up in all the nastiness, but how long were they really going to keep Luke's true heritage a secret from him? He already knows that his dad was wrapped up in some crazy political intrigue, he would have gotten curious about it sooner or later.

[ArchAngel71857]

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4. Also, no one ever mentions Yoda other than Luke and Obi-wan in ESB and ROTJ. Vader alwasy tells Luke "Obi-Wan has taught you well." Obi-Wan hasn't done [censored]. He put a blast shield and Luke's head and told him to turn off his targeting computer. Yoda rides his back like pissed off ex-girlfriend and makes him lift things while teaching him maxims about the light side of the force. Yet, the Emporer and Vader never say anything about Yoda.

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Why would Vader assume that Luke has been training under Yoda? Nobody on the dark side has any reason to believe Yoda is still alive, let alone secretly training untalented actors in the ways of the force. He knows that Obi-Wan was cavorting around with Luke, so he assumed that Obi-Wan gave him his training. Was Luke supposed to say, "Sorry Dad, but Yoda taught me that one." That would be colossally stupid.

Another complaint I had about the continuity between the movies was the way Luke's aunt and uncle feel about Obi-Wan in IV. You'd think they would have a little more compassion for a guy who fought baddies all across the galaxy and went to great lengths to bring their nephew to them. Not only that, but he's a badass jedi who is there mainly to keep an eye on the kid and, by extension, them. I guess you could say that they don't want him to get swallowed up in all the nastiness, but how long were they really going to keep Luke's true heritage a secret from him? He already knows that his dad was wrapped up in some crazy political intrigue, he would have gotten curious about it sooner or later.

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Well the Emporer didn't seem to think that Yoda was dead, which is another reason i would have Episode III closer in time to Episode II.

I agree with Owen and Veru. It seems that Obi-Wan and them are good buddies at the end of III. Then in IV it's like Obi-Wan is that brother you don't invite to Thanksgiving. Another thing I would start in my new Episdoe III is for Obi-wan to start going by Ben. That way when he says "That's a name I haven't heard in a long time," it isn't just because 20 years take place between screen time.

-AA

[Dynasty]

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...how long were they really going to keep Luke's true heritage a secret from him? He already knows that his dad was wrapped up in some crazy political intrigue, he would have gotten curious about it sooner or later.

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Luke did not know the truth about his father when Star Wars begins. When Obi-Wan tells Luke that he fought along side his father in the Clone Wars, Luke responds with something like "My father didn't fight in the Clone Wars. He was a navigator on a transport". Obi-Wan says "That's what your Uncle told you".

It's not clear what Owen and Beru Lars know. But, Owen certainly doesn't want Luke getting involved in the same things.

[PhatTBoll]

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...how long were they really going to keep Luke's true heritage a secret from him? He already knows that his dad was wrapped up in some crazy political intrigue, he would have gotten curious about it sooner or later.

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Luke did not know the truth about his father when Star Wars begins. When Obi-Wan tells Luke that he fought along side his father in the Clone Wars, Luke responds with something like "My father didn't fight in the Clone Wars. He was a navigator on a transport". Obi-Wan says "That's what your Uncle told you".

It's not clear what Owen and Beru Lars know. But, Owen certainly doesn't want Luke getting involved in the same things.

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Ok, fair enough. But it still seems futile for them to try to conceal the past with Kenobi hanging out 5 minutes away.

[Irieguy]

Yeah, Aleo, I know what you're saying. But I think that Yoda's ass-kicking does, actually, make sense in the context of episodes 2 and 3. But that's not really your point, of course.

As far as the effect that Yoda as a movie character/role model may have on the younger, impressionable viewers of the saga... I still feel that the integrity of Yoda's character remains intact in spite of him being a bit of a bully.

The reason why I still like Yoda is because of his sound, succinct, philisophical utterances.

For example:


YODA: Careful you must be when sensing the future, Anakin. The fear of loss is a path to the dark side.

ANAKIN: I won't let these visions come true, Master Yoda.

YODA: Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them, do not. Miss them, do not. Attachment leads to jealousy. The shadow of greed, that is.

ANAKIN: What must I do, Master Yoda?

YODA: Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.

So, if my kid was watching Star Wars episodes 2 and 3, and I was worried that he had to see Yoda fight instead of using his sapience to avoid conflict... that concern would be mitigated by the fact that Yoda is still imparting some Zen wisdom to the listening audience.

So, I think Yoda is still good for the kids. I don't think his aggressiveness betrays his character, because he really does seem to fight only when it is absolutely necessary. He is a Jedi Master, after all... and Jedis are warriors. I'm cool with it all.

Irieguy

[Girchuck]

Somehow, the Jedi knights have become weak and corrupt as a whole organization. They are clearly inadequate for the job of protecting something as huge as The Republic.
Yoda fighting shows the desperation of throwing last reserve into the battle, it shows how desperate and inadequate the Jedi have become. It is a sign of great weakness which the Jedi no longer can afford to hide.

[jakethebake]

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Well, here I am bored, and posting in OOT.

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Welcome to the Dark Side. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[tbach24]

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Well, here I am bored, and posting in OOT.

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Welcome to the Dark Side. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Perfect

[jedi]

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Somehow, the Jedi knights have become weak and corrupt as a whole organization. They are clearly inadequate for the job of protecting something as huge as The Republic.
Yoda fighting shows the desperation of throwing last reserve into the battle, it shows how desperate and inadequate the Jedi have become. It is a sign of great weakness which the Jedi no longer can afford to hide.

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"We're keepers of the peace, not soldiers."

[jedi]

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4. Also, no one ever mentions Yoda other than Luke and Obi-wan in ESB and ROTJ. Vader alwasy tells Luke "Obi-Wan has taught you well." Obi-Wan hasn't done [censored]. He put a blast shield and Luke's head and told him to turn off his targeting computer. Yoda rides his back like pissed off ex-girlfriend and makes him lift things while teaching him maxims about the light side of the force. Yet, the Emporer and Vader never say anything about Yoda.


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If you read the novelization of RotJ, the Emperor does ask Luke about Yoda. When Luke refuses to answer, the Emperor realizes that Yoda is now dead.