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View Full Version : KQs - Am I applying +EV thinking properly?

monix
05-22-2005, 06:12 AM
Table is typical loose, passive group.

SB is a calling station, and UTG is SLAP.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Standard SSHE call.

Flop: (7 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls, UTG calls.

TPGK and backdoor flush draw; trying to build the pot.

Turn: (8 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, UTG calls.

Got the flush draw now.

River: (14 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, UTG calls.

YESSS.
Final Pot: 17 BB
dozer
05-22-2005, 06:22 AM
I would fold this preflop, I don't like cold calling with KQ suited unless there are already 2 or 3 coldcallers in already.
monix
05-22-2005, 06:26 AM
This is a SSHE call for a tight table, let alone a loose one...
therockofgibraltar
05-22-2005, 06:27 AM
I would probably fold preflop because there are no callers yet. But I used to cold-call like this, so maybe it's OK. Nowadays I just try to be a little tighter.

I would just call the flop. the rest I play the same way.


edit: ok. I chanced my mind. cold-call is OK /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
dozer
05-22-2005, 06:31 AM
yea you're right, just reread that part, someone once told me not to cold call with KQ suited and it stuck in my head. I think it's time for me to reread SSHE.
monix
05-22-2005, 06:31 AM
FWIW - I just checked my PT stats, and I have CC with KQs 6 times. I've won twice, with +1.5BB/hand.
grjr
05-22-2005, 06:42 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I would fold this preflop, I don't like cold calling with KQ suited unless there are already 2 or 3 coldcallers in already.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just checked my stats because I was worried that I cold-call a lot. In 32,000 hands at .50/1 I've cold-called 458 times and have a +0.37BB/Hand for a net gain of $176.00 and I've CC'd with a lot worse junk than KQs. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

So I'm not sure why everyone hates cold-calling so much. I think SSHE was particularly against it, wasn't it?
dozer
05-22-2005, 06:48 AM
I thought SSHE was against it too, and I just reread it and it says it's ok with hands like AQs ,AJs, KQs
(small/mid pairs and suited connectors if 3 or more people already cold called) Must have forgot the preflop section since I havn't reread SSHE in awhile.
monix
05-22-2005, 06:50 AM
Pages 84 &amp; 85 (I just re-read this section on Friday /images/graemlins/smile.gif).

"...cold call once in 550 hands".

"in a live game...every 15 hours or so".
ArturiusX
05-22-2005, 06:59 AM
If your going to call it, why not re-raise?
grjr
05-22-2005, 06:59 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Pages 84 &amp; 85 (I just re-read this section on Friday /images/graemlins/smile.gif).

"...cold call once in 550 hands".

"in a live game...every 15 hours or so".

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets see.... 458*550=251,900 and I've only played 32,000 hands. So I guess Ed thinks I CC too much. Will he send me $176 if I stop?
grjr
05-22-2005, 07:05 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If your going to call it, why not re-raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I normally CC with suited connectors and lower pairs so I don't mind if other players string along behind.

Is there a way to configure Poker Tracker to only show hands that you've 3-bet? If there is I haven't found it.
dozer
05-22-2005, 07:18 AM
you must have amazing table selection to be cold calling this much.

I remember..
you the guy with all the marginal hands right??
what happened? How come no more? /images/graemlins/grin.gif
lionhorse
05-22-2005, 07:30 AM
I like this a lot. Very aggressive, but not maniac.
Fantam
05-22-2005, 08:48 AM
Yes, I think you applied EV correctly with this hand.

I think the turn could have been checked or raised. You had 14 outs to improve and possibly the best hand already. So odds of just over 2:1 to improve with 2 opponents remaining was ok for either a check or raise. I actually liked your raise.

Rest of hand straightforward. Nice hand and nice play. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Dunno
05-22-2005, 10:21 AM
Do that! its a great book!
btspider
05-22-2005, 11:18 AM
fold PF. you can cold-call with this hand, but generally not as the second person to enter the pot without a table read.

i think the turn raise is probably too much. i don't think he has AJ.
shadow29
05-22-2005, 11:53 AM
[ QUOTE ]
i think the turn raise is probably too much. i don't think he has AJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like a turn raise. If we miss our hearts, we get a free showdown.
Aaron W.
05-22-2005, 03:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think the turn raise is probably too much. i don't think he has AJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like a turn raise. If we miss our hearts, we get a free showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't. We're probably trailing when villain bets the turn. This is very important.

Once we feel that we're trailing, calling becomes the right play. can't guarantee that SB will call two cold on the turn, and we're not sure if we're going to be 3-bet. For the cost of the same "free" showdown, you can let SB pad the pot. (Remember: We're chasing here. If we're in the lead we raise to protect our hand from 5-outers.)