First hand of PP 10+1

[CWolf]

Here's the hand. No reads, obviously.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)
CO (t800)
Button (t800)
SB (t800)
Hero (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t45</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls t35, Hero calls t30.

Flop: (t132.50) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t100</font>, CO folds, SB calls t100.

Turn: (t332.50) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t250</font>, SB calls t250.

River: (t832.50) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB is all in (405)

Thoughts? Did I play this correctly by leading out, and should I call?

[DasLeben]

I suck when it comes to playing AQo, so I usually end up folding this preflop when OOP. Hopefully someone can give you a better answer though.

[treeofwisdom7]

is it such a bad idea to check fold on the turn.. he has a st8 *thats what i think* maybe even QQ or KK.. but ither way is it such a bad idea to check/fold turn.. if i still had chips i would check fold..

[CWolf]

I think you're right. What could he have that would warrant a call on the flop bet? I was thinking AT, AJ at the time, but he would have led out if he had either of those hands.

I don't feel I made an error preflop or on the flop, but I played the turn incorrectly.

Thanks.

[lastchance]

If you check-fold the turn, you suck at poker. You are horribly weak-tight and are just giving away your chips. So, check-folding the turn = horrible. There's one combination of AA, KK, or QQ in the deck. They check-called the flop. There's no way you can put anyone on a hand that beats you on the turn.

Again, DO NOT CHECK-FOLD THE TURN.

I don't like AQ out of position, so I might fold preflop, though calling is reasonable.

After the flop, you lead. You should lead the turn too, with only 2x pot, I might move in.

And I think you have to call the river. It's very likely opponent has a ten, but.... one in 4 times, and he might have a missed flush instead. 1 in 4 is enough to call the river, and you've got high two-pair. I call hoping for the Ace or missed flush draw.

PS. BET THE TURN. DOING ANYTHING ELSE IS HORRIBLE.

[treeofwisdom7]

[ QUOTE ]
If you check-fold the turn, you suck at poker. You are horribly weak-tight and are just giving away your chips. So, check-folding the turn = horrible. There's one combination of AA, KK, or QQ in the deck. They check-called the flop. There's no way you can put anyone on a hand that beats you on the turn.

Again, DO NOT CHECK-FOLD THE TURN.

I don't like AQ out of position, so I might fold preflop, though calling is reasonable.

After the flop, you lead. You should lead the turn too, with only 2x pot, I might move in.

And I think you have to call the river. It's very likely opponent has a ten, but.... one in 4 times, and he might have a missed flush instead. 1 in 4 is enough to call the river, and you've got high two-pair. I call hoping for the Ace or missed flush draw.

PS. BET THE TURN. DOING ANYTHING ELSE IS HORRIBLE.

[/ QUOTE ]


oki understand why you think im wrong .. dont check fold dont check fold dont check fold cuz he cant just have these few hands?

well guess what ither way im right and he did have us beat .. oh well guess math and logic is better than being right sometimes..

[lastchance]

Even if he did have you beat, you can't possibly know that on the first hand of a Party $10+1. While check/folding the turn and river would have been good this time, over the long run, it's a moronic play that loses you horrible amounts of chips.

If you don't understand this (and a lot more), you should probably throw away AQ in that situation.

He can have AA, KK, QQ, AK, and JT. But think about it? What do you think is more likely, AT or JT? KJ or JT? KQ or KK?

You really think the guy's got one of those hands that beats you based on his betting pattern? You can eliminate flush draws, straight draws, all sorts of random one pair hands? I think it's easier to eliminate a slowplayed set than top pair.

I don't think anyone can do that in this spot, especially the first hand of a $10+1.

[treeofwisdom7]

i dont think he could have A10 AJ.. hes early postion 1st hand im making him a avg player not a lose one..


heres the range i would put him on.. AAKKQQJJ1010 AK... maybe 99..

JJ101099 why the hell would they call a bet on the flop with JJ101099 unless they are just dumb players..

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
JJ101099 why the hell would they call a bet on the flop with JJ101099 unless they are just dumb players..

[/ QUOTE ]
That's what you're missing. They ARE dumb players. Against 2+2er's, you might make me think twice about folding. They're not. Your opponents, by and large, suck at poker. This is where your EV comes from. Fish happen, pick up the chips from them. At the first hand of $10+1, a CO raise could definitely mean AJ or AT, along with all sorts of random stuff.

If I had to guess, the guy has AT, AJ or a hand like flush draw with Ten of diamonds. But I don't guess, because my opponents suck!

[treeofwisdom7]

im shocked if someone did this..

if someone has a similar story to this one please post it.. just so i know its true.. even if its A10 i would think any player fish or not would raise here because of the many draws.. AJ he still would raise.. J10s/o wow cant believe he played this one against me or anyother hand just cant see someone playing it this exact way with any hand that doesnt have you beat..

1) if you have a similar story please share and i'll change my mine.

[maddog2030]

I have been playing the $10's for a while and I've seen a lot weirder plays than this. I have seen fish push with a pair of queens at this board. Not just once, multiple times. Not to mention I've seen fish call raises there with any jack or 10, or any ace. What is going through their minds, I don't know. But to put them on such a tight range of hands is going to give you a heart attack each time they flip over their cards.

[valenzuela]

I like the way u play the hand, I call the river, Im pot comitted.

[maddog2030]

I think the best line is to get all your money in on this pot if no one is anouncing they have the straight. Your flop bet was good in order to extract enough information and to see 1 more card before committing all your chips, without having committed too much of your stack quite yet. The nonscary turn was an absolute push in my opinion. It gave you the information you needed to put it all in the middle.

At the 10s, being on the flush or straight draw is enough for a lot of people to call and you'll be a considerable favorite with only 1 card to come. Often times you'd even see them call with a weak ace where you are unbeatable. If he has JT, so be it. I gaurentee you you'll make plenty of money with this line that once in the blue moon that he has the goods, it's just an acceptable part of variance.

But by not making him make a difficult decision on the turn, you gave yourself a difficult decision on the river.

[valenzuela]

If he had pushed the turn the idiot eould have prolly folded, he was unlucky such a tricky card came on the river.

[jgunnip]

I push the turn. That 350 turn bet is a pretty big chunk of your stack.

[maddog2030]

You'd be surprised. This is how I often play this situation and I get called by the hands I mentioned (weak aces, straight or flush draws, possibly worse). What is going through some of their minds, I don't know. Maybe an allin bet to them signifies weakness and feel obliged to call. Whatever it is, it happens.

I should've but didn't even mention this pot is already big enough to warrant pushing for. Having "the idiot" fold ain't such a bad result with a good sized pot like this.

[CWolf]

I bet 250 on the turn, but yeah, I should have pushed.

Anyhow, it wasn't the raiser that I was playing against there, I was playing against the SB. The original raiser folded to my bet on the flop.

[smcannon]

I'm not playing AQo in the first level to any raise.

[smcannon]

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen fish push with a pair of queens at this board. Not just once, multiple times.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's wrong with pushing QQ?

[lastchance]

A pair queens including the queen on board.

Also note that if he had AA, KK, QQ, or AK, he played it horribly as well, not reraising the flop or betting the turn.

I don't think there's a single hand that you should play like that if you're villain, maybe ATs. Villain's a fish, he could have Q7, and that's what the other guy's saying.

People suck at poker. Never give them credit for being good unless they've shown you they're good.