J8s am I a complete donk?

[captZEEbo1]

preflop aside (I like to raise preflop /images/graemlins/smile.gif ), how's this flop play? If it's bad, what do you do differently?


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG ($1556)
UTG+1 ($0)
MP1 ($860)
Hero ($1295.25)
CO ($1302.75)
Button ($312)
SB ($1466.75)
BB ($1268.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $5.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls $10, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $45</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, MP1 calls $35.

Flop: ($105) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks.
Hero bets [$71].
MP1 raises [$142].
Hero raises [$279].
MP1 raises [$458].
Hero is all-In [$900.25]
MP1 is all-In [$215]

[Richie Rich]

The fact that villian check-raised you on the flop, after you indicated a strong hand with your pf raise, most likely means that he can beat any one pair. Or he reads you for KK/QQ and he smooth-called with AA/KK btf.

One thing worth noting is that there isn't even a flush draw on the flop, so a semi-bluff would not be likely. What hands, then, could villian be re-raising with on that flop? You're currently behind JJ, 88, 77, and 10-9. And only ahead of AA, KK, 87, J7 or a bad semi-bluff, like J10.

If you have a LAG image at the table, and tighties have been patiently waiting to pick you off, then I can see why you felt justified to push him back. (After all, you represented one good pair btf, and now you have two!) Nevertheless, I don't like your move, since imo you're losing here more often than not.

btw- I know you didn't ask for any comments on your pf raise, but if you stop raising marginal hands without position, maybe you won't get into tough situations like this.

[captZEEbo1]

thanks for the input richie. I think you said what I wanted to hear. That there's not a lot I'm ahead of because of the non-draw heavy board.

[iceman5]

You lost right?

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
You lost right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I SHOULD'VE lost...but turn J, river 8....he had T9s.

[Yeti]

I knew from you posting this that you'd suck out /images/graemlins/smile.gif

FWIW I don't think you're a donk necessarily for getting your money in with this hand at some point.

I do think you're a donk for putting the money in on the flop like that when it becomes obvious you're behind.

FWIW I call the minraise and see what develops on the turn. I think folding on the flop is pretty damn weak.

On the turn depending on my opponent I will be calling, raising, or folding.