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mojobluesman
05-21-2005, 04:25 PM
No read.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB
Duerig
05-21-2005, 04:27 PM
I think the only thing you are ahead of on that flop is AK, maybe TT. I probably check call the flop and check fold the turn when the K hits.
Nick Royale
05-21-2005, 04:30 PM
I would fold the turn.
mojobluesman
05-21-2005, 04:44 PM
I guess I blew this one pretty badly. I check raised the flop partly hoping to see where I was instead of just calling down all the way. He told me I was behind and I was too dumb to fold the turn. It was actually my first hand in awhile. Sometimes it takes me a few rounds to start thinking well.
Shillx
05-21-2005, 05:12 PM
I would check/call the flop and check/fold the turn. This is just pure spew imo.

Brad
DMBFan23
05-21-2005, 05:43 PM
after taking your check calling the flop line, I would not check fold the turn...I'm not sure that's what you meant.

but I agree that as hero played it here he should fold the turn
Shillx
05-21-2005, 05:54 PM
[ QUOTE ]
after taking your check calling the flop line, I would not check fold the turn...I'm not sure that's what you meant.

but I agree that as hero played it here he should fold the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Assume that we check/call the flop. The pot will be 9.5 SB = 4.75 BB. The turn card really blows and we will be getting 6.75:2 on a calldown. So we need to end up winning the pot 23% of the time to make this calldown. I don't know if we are good this often, but I don't think that we are.

The problem is that if our hand is good, the villian will often times check behind on the river. If the villian always checked behind with the worst hand, we would be 5.75:1 (only need to win 15%), and this is why you should often times take a CC/CC/CF line against good players. They give you a better price to calldown since you can safely fold to a river bet.

The problem is when they sometimes bet the worst hand again on the river and sometimes check. So in a TAG v TAG situation, it is sometimes correct to bet UI AK or AQ again on the river since he expect you to check behind with it. They will read you for a big pair and will fold the best hand. A random player will sometimes bet a busted AQ again just because he really doesn't understand the game, but in reality he is playing well (against a good player) since he really puts us in a tough spot with our AJ (note that against a bad player you should always check the AQ high and AK high since worse hands will fold and better hands call). If he always checks with the worst hand we can make much better decisions then when he bets with a real hand 80% of the time and bets with a busted hand 20% of the time.

Brad
no1super2001
05-22-2005, 01:55 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I check raised the flop partly hoping to see where I was...

[/ QUOTE ]

I had a post last week on this topic. Someone referred me to this Ed Miller post. It is worth a read, and may have some relevance here. The actual post refers to 3 betting for information.

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=&amp;Number=523282&amp;page=0&amp;view =expanded&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1
aK13
05-22-2005, 02:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I check raised the flop partly hoping to see where I was...

[/ QUOTE ]

I had a post last week on this topic. Someone referred me to this Ed Miller post. It is worth a read, and may have some relevance here. The actual post refers to 3 betting for information.

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=&amp;Number=523282&amp;page=0&amp;view =expanded&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not consider check/raising and 3betting in the same category.
no1super2001
05-22-2005, 02:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I check raised the flop partly hoping to see where I was...

[/ QUOTE ]

I had a post last week on this topic. Someone referred me to this Ed Miller post. It is worth a read, and may have some relevance here. The actual post refers to 3 betting for information.

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=&amp;Number=523282&amp;page=0&amp;view =expanded&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not consider check/raising and 3betting in the same category.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was specifically referring to his comment that he was "hoping to see where he was". There is little value in the information he gains with this play.

The c/r itself is a value play. I am just not keen on the concept of betting for information. It may play on the WPT, but not on the micros.