Played KQ too weakly?

[dawade]

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

[Isura]

Good flop check. Nice hand.

[irishpint]

BET THE FLOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Redd]

Whole thing looks good to me. Me gusta.

[Shillx]

No you played it fine. Nice hand.

[Redd]

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BET THE FLOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Hero has 6 outs to "improve" to second pair against 5 players (4 if we don't count the spades). I think our fold equity isn't great here, and even if we improve and dodge the flush draw we might stil be behind a timid ace.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
BET THE FLOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Betting the flop is pretty bad here. Betting the turn is a little better, but still not better than checking.

[irishpint]

if we raise PF we need to bet a flop with a high card like this, dont we? often times we'll win it uncontested.

[irishpint]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BET THE FLOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero has 6 outs to "improve" to second pair against 5 players (4 if we don't count the spades). I think our fold equity isn't great here, and even if we improve and dodge the flush draw we might stil be behind a timid ace.

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what do u mean our fold equity isnt that good? we raised PF and now comes that scary ace!

[istewart]

I would often bet this but into a much smaller field and pretty much dependent on who else is in the pot. Betting here, despite being checked to, is not very good.

[btspider]

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Good flop check. Nice hand.

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[aK13]

I think its fine. Are we showing down if we hit a K on the turn and get check/raised?

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BET THE FLOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Hero has 6 outs to "improve" to second pair against 5 players (4 if we don't count the spades). I think our fold equity isn't great here, and even if we improve and dodge the flush draw we might stil be behind a timid ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

what do u mean our fold equity isnt that good? we raised PF and now comes that scary ace!

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, there's two problems with assuming everone will fold to our "ace".

First there's 5 players. Difficulty of getting the whole field to fold increases exponentially with the number of players.

Furthermore, the board is very coordinated, so lots of poeple will have an excuse to call. We're not folding two spades here no matter what. There are OSEDs and possibly (poorly-played) gutshots that would call here.

These two factors combined mean that we'll likely have players to the river, and there's no way of knowing if they're calling with A9 or with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif10/images/graemlins/spade.gif. And we're going to pay (spew?) alot to find out.

[irishpint]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BET THE FLOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero has 6 outs to "improve" to second pair against 5 players (4 if we don't count the spades). I think our fold equity isn't great here, and even if we improve and dodge the flush draw we might stil be behind a timid ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

what do u mean our fold equity isnt that good? we raised PF and now comes that scary ace!

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, there's two problems with assuming everone will fold to our "ace".

First there's 5 players. Difficulty of getting the whole field to fold increases exponentially with the number of players.

Furthermore, the board is very coordinated, so lots of poeple will have an excuse to call. We're not folding two spades here no matter what. There are OSEDs and possibly (poorly-played) gutshots that would call here.

These two factors combined mean that we'll likely have players to the river, and there's no way of knowing if they're calling with A9 or with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif10/images/graemlins/spade.gif. And we're going to pay (spew?) alot to find out.

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ok, im sold.

[AmarilloJim1]

Maybe you should've folded pre-flop.

Maybe you should've bet the flop when checked to.

Overall, not bad.

[Rev. Good Will]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you should've folded pre-flop.

Maybe you should've bet the flop when checked to.

Overall, not bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

why fold PF?

why bet the flop into a field that large, where a player could play a timid ace like that, and we don't have much outs to "improve"?

elaborate, please

[Young Gun]

Postflop is good, but why would you raise this hand preflop? You're going to be out of position the entire hand. Maybe a wiser person could explain this play ot me, but it seems foolish.

[Kumubou]

There are a couple of reasons why KQo is a raising hand. Primarly, it is a strong hand -- you have the best hand in the instances no one has anything worth raising with, which is fairly often. You will also know when you are behind, as every hand KQ is a major dog to will three bet once it is raised. Raising also puts pressure on people in late position, making it more likely that you will be in positon for the rest of the hand.

I have to be honest -- I would bet that flop, but that is probably a problem for me.

-K

[Young Gun]

"Raising also puts pressure on people in late position, making it more likely that you will be in positon for the rest of the hand."

How can that put you in position when you're going to have to act first on the later streets?

[SteveL91]

[ QUOTE ]


How can that put you in position when you're going to have to act first on the later streets?

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you figure that? Hero is two seats off the button. And you raise this pre-flop because it has an equity edge against two random hands. Not raising this is giving money away. Also, raising pre-flop opens up the luxury of not necessarily having to hit the flop to win. Of course, this depends on a lot of things, but for me, it's worth the additional small bet.

[Quercus]

[ QUOTE ]

Good flop check. Nice hand.


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[PokerCat69]

Betting a missed flop with KQ, when an Ace is showing, and with 5 players is retarded. check/fold is how to play this.

[Isura]

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Good flop check. Nice hand.


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First time I've had one of my posts quoted twice in the same thread!