comment on these two.

[therockofgibraltar]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP3 folds.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, Hero folds, CO calls.

<font color="blue"> I would not have folded to a 3-bet BUT to a cap? </font>

Turn: (10.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, BB calls.

River: (14.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, BB calls.

Final Pot: 16.75 BB



Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 folds.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 caps</font>, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

<font color="blue"> OK, this is just my luck BUT I have to call all the way, right? </font>

River: (19.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 22.25 BB

[Nick Royale]

Hand 1: Don't include the turn, but yes call a 3-bet and fold to the cap.

Hand 2: Did you really post UTG? And check/raised the flop? Postflop is nice.

[MrWookie47]

Hand 1: You have odds to draw to a 5 outer if you're up against two overpairs or 63, but you might be drawing to two outs against eights up or slim to dead against a set. I think this is an OK fold.

Hand 2: I think the turn play is good. Even if you're behind a straight, you have about 20% equity to hit a house or quads. The pot is pretty ridiculous on the river, so a crying call isn't all that bad, but I'd definitely fold if UTG+2 woke up.

[therockofgibraltar]

[ QUOTE ]
And check/raised the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about? I bet /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I didn't post UTG I was in BB, hand converter is a mess!

[MrWookie47]

I think there was a converter error. It looks like hero was BB.

[Nick Royale]

I ment to say preflop... my bad.

[Dunno]

Hand 1: if its a loose game its ok to play A8s form EP but normaly its not whort it.
On the flop i like the raise but for gods sake dont fold!!!! Sorry to say this but this is a terrible fold. if u are behind u do have 5 outs to improve. the only thing that beats u right now is an overpair or a set! ooh and did i mention u got top pair. Dont fold in big pots w good chanses.

Hand 2: This is great IMO. he could have u beat at the flop w the QJ but thats life. rasing the flop and turn is the right thing to do. Besides that u would have good odds to make a fullhouse by the river.
River is a nastycard and ur prob beaten but u have to call it down. Good play.

GL // Dunno

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
if its a loose game its ok to play A8s form EP but normaly its not whort it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not limping A8s after a limper would be terrible. Especially after 1 limper.

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop i like the raise but for gods sake dont fold!!!! Sorry to say this but this is a terrible fold. if u are behind u do have 5 outs to improve. the only thing that beats u right now is an overpair or a set! ooh and did i mention u got top pair. Dont fold in big pots w good chanses.


[/ QUOTE ]
You really dunno...

[Dunno]

I dont agree at all limping is ok if u know there will be som action after him but if the pot normaly is 3-way action this isnt good and if he gets raised in a 3-way or HU action this isnt good.

Now guys lets think about this hand a little... u do have the top pair and have 5 outs. the pot is 11sb. If u hit this what will ur implied odds be? it would be enormus! No way i fold here. The rasier might just pumping hes overcards and trying to get lucky. Ive seen this many many times and the pair takes a good pot home. the agressien of these players make me sure to call, and its just 1bb back to u.

GL // Dunno

[tinhat]

Limping a suited ace from utg+1? Not knowing the pf cost (raises/# of bettors), a useless kicker, dreaming about a flush - I'd like to get my vpip up some, so maybe I should be playing something like this? Do the same with A7-x? OP didn't characterize the table so that doesn't matter either? Right now I only play this when I'm desperate for ANYTHING after a few orbits of folding pf so I'd like to know if I'm missing $$ by throwing these away ep...

Mike

[Redd]

Nick, how many outs would you give hero on the first flop?

[Redd]

In hand 1 the raiser might be raising overs, but I'm more worried about the flop capper. On this board, he's pushing either a set or 2p so I think our reverse implied odds are as good as our implied odds here.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont agree at all limping is ok if u know there will be som action after him but if the pot normaly is 3-way action this isnt good and if he gets raised in a 3-way or HU action this isnt good.

[/ QUOTE ]
The only thing I get from this is that it will be bad if we get raised and it ends up 3-handed. That's true, but will not happen very often. Easy call IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
Now guys lets think about this hand a little... u do have the top pair and have 5 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]
No. You have 0 outs against 33 66 88. 3 outs against 63 83. You need 4 outs at average and I don't think we have that.

[ QUOTE ]
If u hit this what will ur implied odds be? it would be enormus!

[/ QUOTE ]
Our implied odds sucks since we might very well be behind even if we hit.

[ QUOTE ]
The rasier might just pumping hes overcards and trying to get lucky.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, I misread. It's not likely he's 3-betting overs though, but he's not our primary concern.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: if its a loose game its ok to play A8s form EP but normaly its not whort it.
On the flop i like the raise but for gods sake dont fold!!!! Sorry to say this but this is a terrible fold. if u are behind u do have 5 outs to improve. the only thing that beats u right now is an overpair or a set! ooh and did i mention u got top pair. Dont fold in big pots w good chanses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to say this, but you're wrong here, across the board. First, a suited ace from middle position with one limper already in is an auto-limp...if it's suited with a card 9 or higher, it's usually a raise.

Second, it's probably not a great idea to raise your pair of 8s, here...BB just woke up after limping against a raise PF which screams set to me (he's OOP, remember), and you've got the PFR (likely overpair) still to act. If you want to keep going in this hand, you want to do it cheap, you're not getting anybody to fold, and you haven't got much equity, here.

Third, you have 5 outs to improve your hand, but they aren't full outs. Against the possible set you've got only 2 outs. Against the possible overpair you've got 5 outs, but he's also got 2 outs against you. The pot's offering you 10-1 (roughly) to continue, I don't think you can count on implied odds since you're not sure you're going to win even if you hit your hand, and you don't have enough outs to make 10-1.

IMO.

[Nick Royale]

I wouldn't limp it first in, but at a standard .5-1 table I think it's a pretty easy limp after a limper. Folding isn't terrible as I suggest before though.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Nick, how many outs would you give hero on the first flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
3-4 on average. At best.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know if I'm missing $$ by throwing these away ep...

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[Dunno]

wouldnt he make the same play w an overpair? Pocket Q? even if the flop raiser has 2 pair i would call to try improving the turn. if we are 2 w pockets we can make a huge pot /images/graemlins/laugh.gif and if we dont improve we could just simpy fold to a turnbet or a bet w a raise.

GL // Dunno

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
wouldnt he make the same play w an overpair?

[/ QUOTE ]
He could, but that's not very likely after all this action.


[ QUOTE ]
and if we dont improve we could just simpy fold to a turnbet or a bet w a raise.


[/ QUOTE ]
We wouldn't be able to fold to a bet, but a bet and raise.

[Dunno]

u do have a good point w the pockets but how often do u see ppl play 36? i dont se to often.
and why wouldnt he pump/bluff overcards? iv seen this many times.
But i have to agree its not as bad fold as i first thought, still a call for me but not by much.

[tinhat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know if I'm missing $$ by throwing these away ep...

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks! That cheers me up - more hands to play /images/graemlins/smile.gif

/hijack

[Dunno]

Well ok u guys have convinseda me /images/graemlins/tongue.gif its a fold. maybe im loosing money in this spot... have to think about that /images/graemlins/confused.gif

GL // Dunno

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
u do have a good point w the pockets but how often do u see ppl play 36? i dont se to often.

[/ QUOTE ]
Against 63 we have 5 outs, and 8 outs on the turn (against BB, not PFR if he holds a high PP). But he would be correct to 63s 86s from BB here. And in this pretty big pot people will play hands like 86o from BB, remember it's .5-1.

[ QUOTE ]
and why wouldnt he pump/bluff overcards? iv seen this many times.


[/ QUOTE ]
3-betting overs would be crazy here, I would really need a read before I believe it's a factor to consider. But as said, he's not our main concern.

[ QUOTE ]
But i have to agree its not as bad fold as i first thought, still a call for me but not by much.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think giving us 3.5 outs is on the optimistic side in this situation, and we need ~4 to call.

[Dunno]

well u got me.. im thinking this is a fold /images/graemlins/tongue.gif i have to revaluate my play i these spots. For me this would be an instant call normaly. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

GL // Dunno

[MrWookie47]

If it was just CO, or if it was another preflop raiser, I would probably call, thinking I'm up against two overpairs, against which I have odds to call. However, the capper is the BB who just called preflop. That significantly increases the chances that he has a set or ragged two pair. Him having TT-AA is unlikely, since he probably would have 3bet preflop. A naked 8 probably wouldn't be going bonkers like this. Again, you shouldn't be nearly as worried about CO as you should be about BB here.