Two 200+15 hands

[AbelM]

#1

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP (t2300)
CO (t1431)
Button (t933)
SB (t1506)
Hero (t3120)
UTG (t710)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t710 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls t560, <font color="#CC3333">Hero</font> ?

#2

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t570)
CO (t1810)
Button (t3155)
SB (t660)
Hero (t1480)
UTG (t965)
UTG+1 (t175)
MP1 (t1185)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t200</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls t200, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero</font>?

[Nick B.]

I would fold the first one and call the second.

[burgi]

I would probably fold both!
The first one, I fold because SB already called, which means that at best, you are up against 4 overcards, and at worst against at least one of them holding a pair themselves.
The second hand, I would also fold because you would have to get a pretty good flop to continue playing this hand and T200 would be too valuable to me at this point!

[AbelM]

I'm the BB in #2 so it's only 100 more

[burgi]

sorry, didn't see that. For T100, I would probably call simply because you only have to put an additional T100 in, in order to win at least T600. I think, you can and should make this call then in this instance.

[shejk]

The first one is definately a call.
EDIT: Oops, a slight math error here. It is not such a nobrainer as I made it sound, but I think it is still a clear call. You're getting great pot odds, it's a huge pot so sb will probably pay you off if you hit it, and there's a decent chance that it will be checked down if noone hits (allowing you a small chance at taking it all down unimproved).

The second one I'd probably fold lacking a read but a call and bet on most flops is probably good as well.

[Daliman]

2 easy folds.

[adanthar]

The first one's closer than I thought at first but I call anyway. You're getting 4:1, SB has a thousand behind so it's potentially more, there's some small chance you win unimproved, you're a big stack, I'm gamboooling.

I fold the second unless UTG is a complete donkey, in which case I probably see a flop.

[Madd]

#1 There are four possibilities.

a) Fold - Somehow I don't like it. You are getting more than 4-1 on a call. However, you don`t risk to lose the chiplead which guarantees you an advantage in the discipline of blind stealing.

b) Push - To shut out the SB, but I don't think the SB will fold given his odds.

c) Call and check down - Your chances of spiking another 2 in the community cards are 1/5. It's close, but I don't think you have the odds.

d) Call and push the flop - StopnGo might work to shut out the SB and have a race with UTG with a lot of dead money in the pot. How about this? (Obviously depending on the texture of the flop.)

#2 I don't know the range of hands a 200$-player minraises UTG, but it smells like a pretty strong hand, so a fold might be in order. (Nevertheless my flesh is weak and I would probably call, hoping for a AJTr flop.)

[Scorpion Man]

Is 4:1 with a small chance you get the other 1000 from the SB enough to make this bet? What I dont like about the call in the first hand is that you will never have any sense where you are unless you hit the set. You are almost a 5 to 1 dog if one of the other hands is a pair. You are something like 2.4 to 1 against random overcards. That sounds good...but the problem is there is a reasonable chance that the SB will push on the flop. Even if that is only 1/3 of the time, it will really screw up your odds because you CANT CALL. You may already be beat by UTG for starters. THen you have half your chips into the pot with 22. I just dont see the need to gamble here. And if you think you would call the SB push when it happens...then you should push youself, now, and get the fold equity. You are the bigger stack, you will be representing a real hand, and the SB might take his chances on the bubble. If his hand was strong he should have raised. I think there is real chance he folds. So...I would, in order of preference, (1) fold (2) push (3) call.

--------------------------------
On the second hand, its pretty tough. Its not an important amount of chips. What really bothers me is the min raise. This is player dependant, but that is sometimes a very big hand and I am worried he is begging for a call. He has enough chips to cripple me. What happens if I hit? I am out of position...I may fold because it saves me a hard decision later.

[AbelM]

I also had a hard time figuring out what the miniraise ment, i had no read whatsoever on the player.

First thought would be a monster. Another thought: he has a medium hand (AJ, 99 or something like that), wants to raise but doesn't want to commit himself, hence the miniraise.

[augie00]

The first one is clearly a call, I would fold the 2nd one simply because although it's only 100 more, you could lose a LOT more than 100 should you hit here along with someone else who dominates you. It's early.

I think everyone is ignoring in hand one that the BB is 300. It's not even a 3x BB raise people.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
The first one is clearly a call


[/ QUOTE ]

Not really...if you think it will be checked down to river *alot* then I don't mind calling....22 is one of the worst hands I can imagine having here (you can't call anything post flop unless you hit ur set).

[ QUOTE ]

I would fold the 2nd one simply because although it's only 100 more, you could lose a LOT more than 100 should you hit here along with someone else who dominates you. It's early.


[/ QUOTE ]

I fold the second one...mainly b/c the UTG minraise = v strong hand too much of the time.

[ QUOTE ]

I think everyone is ignoring in hand one that the BB is 300. It's not even a 3x BB raise people.

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it....the problem is getting to showdown when you don't hit a set - it really starts to kill your $EV in a hurry.

That being said, I don't really mind calling if you are familiar with your opponent.

Yugoslav

[citanul]

i'm confused, am i way out of line on the first hand that i think that my choices would be largely between pushing preflop and folding, not having calling as an option? beyond that, i haven't thought about this hand at all.

citanul

[Newt_Buggs]

I'm with you on hand 1 citanul. If I think that there's a chance I can push SB off of his hand, I'm pushing. If not, I'm folding

on hand two, saying that "I'm the BB in #2 so it's only 100 more" is terrible reasoning. It does not matter if its only t100 if you're dominated and an utg mini raise screams AA KK. I'm almost always folding this unless I somehow think that utg is weak in which case I might call. In a very rare occassion against certain players I might push instead.

[Scorpion Man]

i agree if i am playing this hand i am pushing. That said, I dont really want to play this hand.

[AbelM]

Some usefull replies, thanks.

I pushed both btw.

[Bigwig]

Heh. I'm really surprised how many of you are folding hand #2. I'd call this in a second.

Of course, if you don't know how to get rid of top pair, fold it.

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
Heh. I'm really surprised how many of you are folding hand #2. I'd call this in a second.

Of course, if you don't know how to get rid of top pair, fold it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think hand 2 is an easy call, and there is no way I am getting rid of top pair with as big as the pot is.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm confused, am i way out of line on the first hand that i think that my choices would be largely between pushing preflop and folding, not having calling as an option? beyond that, i haven't thought about this hand at all.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]
Yup. Push or fold. Push flop ok also, if risky.

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
Some usefull replies, thanks.

I pushed both btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

and...

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Heh. I'm really surprised how many of you are folding hand #2. I'd call this in a second.

Of course, if you don't know how to get rid of top pair, fold it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what are you calling for then? The 9TJ or KKQ flop?

[AbelM]

In the first hand SB folded and UTG won the coinflip with A9.

In the second both folded.

[Newt_Buggs]

[ QUOTE ]

In the second both folded.

[/ QUOTE ]
nicely played. When I wrote my response I was thinking that the CO would have a lot of trouble calling but the UTG seemed in too deep. Did you have a read on UTG as weak?

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Heh. I'm really surprised how many of you are folding hand #2. I'd call this in a second.

Of course, if you don't know how to get rid of top pair, fold it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what are you calling for then? The 9TJ or KKQ flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

It might just be a K94 flop. Or QT8. It doesn't have to be much. It can be JT3. When the marginal flop hits (like the first two I mentioned), I'll check and see what happens. You get a fishy bet, or two checks, and it's push or push the turn time. The odds are too good to fold for 100 here. It's only like 7% of your stack, so it's not out of line. Plus, I hate sending the message that you can steal my blind with any mini-raise.

EDIT--A lot of the post flop play is player dependent, of course. But with this stack in this spot, I'm not folding this hand for 100.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Heh. I'm really surprised how many of you are folding hand #2. I'd call this in a second.

Of course, if you don't know how to get rid of top pair, fold it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Stealing a tight blind is the LAST thing on a UTG raiser's mind.
Exactly what are you calling for then? The 9TJ or KKQ flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

It might just be a K94 flop. Or QT8. It doesn't have to be much. It can be JT3. When the marginal flop hits (like the first two I mentioned), I'll check and see what happens. You get a fishy bet, or two checks, and it's push or push the turn time. The odds are too good to fold for 100 here. It's only like 7% of your stack, so it's not out of line. Plus, I hate sending the message that you can steal my blind with any mini-raise.

EDIT--A lot of the post flop play is player dependent, of course. But with this stack in this spot, I'm not folding this hand for 100.

[/ QUOTE ]

[FieryJustice]

2 folds, i think.

Jcardshark