Biggest waste of 22 dollars ever?

[Karak567]

First hand of the tournament. This is more evidence of why I shouldn't play poker just after I wake up and I am still groggy and not thinking straight.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)
CO (t800)
Button (t800)
Hero (t800)
BB (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t15, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls t15, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t57.50) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t60</font>, BB folds, UTG calls t60, MP2 folds.

Turn: (t177.50) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero bets 150, villain min-raises, hero pushes.

River: (t177.50) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t177.50

[J-Lo]

bet at MOST 100 on the turn. Save yourself some chips, and fold vs the tougher crowd in the mornin to raises w/ TP/GK.

[The4Aces]

fold pre flop

[valenzuela]

nah, sb has to complete with almost anything if not anything.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
nah, sb has to complete with almost anything if not anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if he plays K8 like this....if you play K8 like that post-flop then folding pre-flop is superior - I don't care what curtains says.

If you don't flop two pair or trips and want to continue with the hand, then at least try to get to showdown as cheaply as possible...

Yugoslav

[CWolf]

At 10/15 blinds, you complete with any two.

EDIT: Just read Yugoslavian's post, and yeah, if you don't know how to play this hand post-flop, then it's probably better to fold.

[Karak567]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
nah, sb has to complete with almost anything if not anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if he plays K8 like this....if you play K8 like that post-flop then folding pre-flop is superior - I don't care what curtains says.

If you don't flop two pair or trips and want to continue with the hand, then at least try to get to showdown as cheaply as possible...

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

My post flop play leaves a lot to be desired. I should just fold to the bubble and push QQ+ everytime, heh.

[microbet]

Yugo is right. Valenzuela is right too.

Level 1 play: fold level 1 preflop without standard opening cards.

Level 2 play: complete SB in level 1, but only put more chips in the pot with 2-pair or better.

Level 3 play: complete SB in level 1 and continue profitably even after not hitting 2-pair or better (this looks a lot like level 2, but not always).

[The Yugoslavian]

Except Valenzuela is wrong...saying the SB needs to complete here is wrong...the reason why is staring him in the face as well.

I see too many players playing their 'any two' for a loss....even if you are capable of 'level 2' play it may only be very marginally +$EV and there are metagame considerations (which neither you or curtains will agree with me on) that would make me fold K8 here anyway. 'Level 3' play is more possible the higher the buyin is and deeper the starting stacks...for instance, I doubt even curtains is able to turn K8 into a profitable hand on level 1 unless he flops 2 pair or better at the 22s. If you magically don't allow him to ever flop 2 pair or better I think he should fold this hand even from the SB.

Yugoslav

[Scuba Chuck]

I don't think it was a waste if you learned something from it.

[valenzuela]

But two pairs, trips and cool draws do happen. I dont care what you say Im still putting less than 1% of my stack to see a flop /images/graemlins/tongue.gif. You have 40-1 odds to flop 2 pairs( wpt season 1) and 50-1 odds to flop trips( rough math I just worked out)Which means something like a 4,5% chance of flopping the goods, thereby folding any 2 with more than 5 limpers its a disaster, now if we add implied odds+ the time u lose + the times u win the hand without flopping something great+ straights + flushes then we probably have to limp if theres say 3 limpers because with only 3 limpers u can bet ur hand ( k8) with a K42 flop. Im sorry for my horrible english and lack of paragraphs but I hope you get my point of view

[microbet]

I don't know about the meta game.

I think the completion is profitable as a whole. If you took away the possibility of flopping 2-pair+, it might not be. But, after counting the T15 as a sunk cost, you can still play the hand profitably.

I've got to start using pokertracker, but then again I don't crank out enough SNGs to give any good data on something like this.

[The Yugoslavian]

Oh yeah..I get your point...I'm just saying that after reading the original post...I don't think telling him to always complete the SB is necessarily a good idea....it's -$EV for him right now....however, if he learns from it every time then soon it should be +$EV (barely) and then +$EV (slightly more barely).....

It's much easier to leak from the SB on level 1 than to profit significantly from it....IMO.

You do what you gotta do though valenzuela dude...

Yugoslav

[valenzuela]

Ok I agree with you, I shouldnt tell ppl they "must" do something when theyre losing money doing it.