How's my line? Should I wait till the turn to raise? [Archive]

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moot

05-21-2005, 01:28 AM

Not sure if waiting till the turn to raise was correct. Anyway, after he 3 bet me on the flop I realized no one was going anywhere so I figured everyone with weak draws and tiny paired hands is paying me the max to see this through.

I think checking on the end was correct. If you wanna value bet that then you guys go right ahead. But I won't and I never will in that spot. Though as always, I'm willing to hear arguments to the contrary.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP3 posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG calls, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) calls, 4 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (6 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, UTG 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (17.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, UTG calls.

River: (22.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, UTG folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: 25.75 BB

bottomset

05-21-2005, 01:37 AM

first raise is good, cap is bad

wait for a good turn card, then fire

moot

05-21-2005, 01:39 AM

Oh my, you're absolutely right. It gives me the perfect opportunity to protect my hand again on the turn. Yes, good point. I completely agree.

PokerCat69

05-21-2005, 01:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if waiting till the turn to raise was correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
You didn't wait till the turn, it looks like you raised on the flop. Did I read this wrong?

moot

05-21-2005, 01:49 AM

You read it right. It's just the way I worded it.

"Not sure if I should have waited till the turn to raise."

Perhaps that would have been better.

So by this I meant smooth calling the flop and counting on the flop aggressor to bet out so I could face the field with 2 big bets cold.

Sadly, calling his 3bet would have afforded me the same chance. I agree that capping the flop was unwise.

MrWookie47

05-21-2005, 02:18 AM

I bet the river.

moot

05-21-2005, 02:23 AM

I disagree, and it's not even because of the ace specifically. Too often in these hands there are players who have weak 2 pairs that they get scared with. They don't play them aggressively because they figure they are losing to a set or something (because of all the aggression). I realize taken too far this is an excuse to never value bet but I think it's the combination of the ace PLUS the number of players that have stuck around.

In my experience betting this is -EV. In this specific case I was right; I had the worst hand at the showdown.

Firefly

05-21-2005, 02:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
Against 4 players?
1- yes, 2- sure, 3- mayb, 4-may be a little thin

moot

05-21-2005, 02:47 AM

Yeah, if this had been a heads up battle I would have insta-bet here. I don't care if it's an overcard that completes straights AND flushes. But against 4 it just feels silly.

Explain to me why you're betting this. First of all, I think we can all agree that getting raised would be downright awful. Now it's just my hand against all the hands I KNOW beat me. Secondly, in many cases it's getting bet here anyway by someone and then a ton of weak hands may call, because of the big pot. Thirdly, sometimes it gets checked through and I'm still losing to things like weak 2 pairs, etc.

So Wookie, explain to me why on earth you bet here. I absolutely do not think this it's positive EV.