3/6 KQo - Trips on the turn

[mannika]

Haven't played for a week due to bankroll and internet connection issues. Just wondering how everyone thinks this went.

Zero reads on villain.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls.

Flop: (5.33 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 calls.

Turn: (4.66 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8.66 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 11.66 BB

[shant]

Well, he obviously was bluffing since he folded the river, but I think you can just 3-bet the turn. It sure looks like he has a Q and I think you can give him a chance to go crazy with it. I don't think a weaker Q would re-raise you on the river here, but would re-raise the turn.

[PokerSparky]

I would have just 3 bet the turn.

[mannika]

Hmm... I would agree with you if my only concern is getting additional bets out of a weaker queen (which is what I was trying to do on the river), however I think that you're often going to be up against someone without a queen here, in which case calling the turn encourages them to lead on the river again. I was contemplating the 3-bet on the turn for a while, but opted not to in fear of folding a non-queen.

Edit: Then again there are two two-flushes on the board. I haven't been protecting my hands very well recently.

[oreogod]

I call the turn, raise them on the river when they lead into me.

I like the way the hand is. 3-betting only encourages weaker hands to fold, and thats what you are going to be up against a majority of the time in this situation.



EDIT: You can charge a flush, but there is no way you are ever going to protect yourself against one. EVER.

You played it well. NH. (Seriously, this is the best line). I think your line is better in that, u dont have to worry about being outdrawn once u hit the river, If he has a flush draw, with a pair he will probably call your river raise. I think your line adds the possibility of getting in more bets, and not having to worry about half the deck killing your hand.

[Buckmulligan]

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: Then again there are two two-flushes on the board. I haven't been protecting my hands very well recently.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see what you are trying to do and I like the idea, but if he has one of those flush draws, he's paying the 3rd turn bet. I say raise the turn.

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Edit: Then again there are two two-flushes on the board. I haven't been protecting my hands very well recently.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see what you are trying to do and I like the idea, but if he has one of those flush draws, he's paying the 3rd turn bet. I say raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

But I dont think he had a flush draw to be honest with u. Its possible he might have picked it up on the turn (spade), but I think 3-betting is only encouraging opponent to fold.

Given preflop and turn action, I think opponents turn move is totally plausible with a ton of weaker hands.

[Shillx]

but I think 3-betting is only encouraging opponent to fold.

When was the last time that you bet-called the flop and then check/raised the turn with the intention of folding to a 3-bet? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

I like getting the money in on the turn.

Brad

Edit - He might not have been bluffing on the river. He could have had a semi-bluff that missed so saying that he would fold to a turn 3-bet may or may not be true in this spot.

[W. Deranged]

Mann,

Very nice hand. You're line is the best here, and one I think I have been making mistakes on recently. Very often the turn raise by villain is a bluff (seizing the opportunity when the trips come) or something marginal like 10 10 (with the new thought that the trips coming makes it more likely his hand is good). In the first case, three-betting the turn is clearly wrong, as you are going to induce a fold on the turn and lose a possible bet on the river when your opponent fires another bluff bullet. In the second case, you have your opponent drawing dead or very close, and they may also be likely to fold to a three-bet on the turn whereas they may check-call (or even lead the river). (Note: the second scenario is probably more likely to come from an aggressive, reasonably thinking player; check-raising the turn with something like 10 10 with the intend of checking the turn or folding to a three-bet is a pretty sophisticated line, in my opinion. So, if you have a read that your opponent is particularly skilled or has a very high turn agression factor, all the more reason to take your line).

Against a worse queen, you are probably going to make an equal number of bets either way, unless your opponent is super-aggressive and would have capped the turn. (Even in that case, such opponents may three-bet the river).

The only time a turn three-bet is obviously correct is when your opponent is on a flush draw, but I think the added value from the times you induce a bluff are fine for this. And, as has been said, you can charge a flush draw but not protect against it.

[oreogod]

To each his own.

Do u think hes calling your river bet then?

Either way that works that presents the most valuable way to play this on the turn and river is what Im looking for if u think Im wrong.

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When was the last time that you bet-called the flop and then check/raised the turn with the intention of folding to a 3-bet? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

When I would open limp in MP...which is before I came in contact with 2+2.

[oreogod]

Here is the way I see it:

1.3-bet the turn...he calls or folds on his SemiBluff. He folds to your River action.

2.Call the turn raise, he leads the river, u raise...he folds or calls.

I think the second line adds in a possible extra BB.

EDIT: This depends on opponent. And of course its dependant on what you think Villian is holding.