2 common things I want to learn: Chess and Golf

[BusterStacks]

Chess: tonight I witnessed a game between 2 "homeboy" types and was amazed at the strategy involved and the messages they picked up from their opponents play. This seems like something I would really enjoy, unfortunately I know literally nothing about chess beyong what the pieces look like. Yes, I call them horse, castle, etc. Is there a book for total noobs? Also what kind of time frame am I looking at before I can play someone and not make a noob ass mistake? How long until I might win? Any software?

Golf:
I don't like golf. I think it's boring to watch, and only moderately entertaining to play. However, I have never played an actual round. I promised myself I would learn to hit a decent shot before hitting the greens. I used to hit like 50 balls a day until my clubs got stolen. I feel like I should make an effort to become good however, because it seems like the white-collar thing to do. Addintionally, my dad (a very successful businessman) says he credits half or more of his success to contacts he has made via golfing. He is quite good and is often asking me to play. How can I make this something I will enjoy more? What clubs do I need and how much do I need to spend for something decent?

thanks everyone.

[Popinjay]

don't learn chess imo. it's kind of cool but it's been majorly suckified in that memorization of a shitload of moves is practically a necessity to be good

[Hermlord]

Nah, you can go a long way just learning some theory and using an aggressive approach. Obviously to compete you'll need to memorize shite, but who wants to be a chess-club geek anyway? Whomping your friends is more fun.

[BusterStacks]

dude, i dont want to be awesome at chess, i just want to play my friends. if i had a 50% chance of winning a random dude who knew how to play i would be happy.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
who wants to be a chess-club geek anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, don't knock it. It can get you out of speeding tickets (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=exchange&Number=2429097&Fo rum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main =2427054&Search=true&where=&Name=7432&daterange=&n ewerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev= #Post2429097).

[PokerFink]

How does the rating system for chess work?

How good is 2200?

[Popinjay]

[ QUOTE ]
How does the rating system for chess work?

How good is 2200?

[/ QUOTE ]

really f-in good, but under GM status i think by a decent amount

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
How does the rating system for chess work?

How good is 2200?

[/ QUOTE ]

Every 200 points represents a rating class, and a 2200 player could expect to score 75% against a 2000 rated player, who can expect to score 75% against an 1800, etc, etc. Grandmasters would usually be 2500 and higher in the USCF system. Beginners might be 800-1200.

http://www.uschess.org/ratings/ratedist.php

http://www.uschess.org/ratings/top/0504/OverallList.php

[thatpfunk]

[ QUOTE ]
Golf:
I don't like golf. I think it's boring to watch, and only moderately entertaining to play. However, I have never played an actual round. I promised myself I would learn to hit a decent shot before hitting the greens. I used to hit like 50 balls a day until my clubs got stolen. I feel like I should make an effort to become good however, because it seems like the white-collar thing to do. Addintionally, my dad (a very successful businessman) says he credits half or more of his success to contacts he has made via golfing. He is quite good and is often asking me to play. How can I make this something I will enjoy more? What clubs do I need and how much do I need to spend for something decent?

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to get super frustrated with golf. Get 3 friends, everyone buys a couple 24's and go to a par 3 course. Play 9 holes, goof around, drink some beer. It is a lot of fun on a nice day. You're outside, drinking, hanigng out with your friends. I can't ask for much more than that.

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]

I used to get super frustrated with golf. Get 3 friends, everyone buys a couple 24's and go to a par 3 course. Play 9 holes, goof around, drink some beer. It is a lot of fun on a nice day. You're outside, drinking, hanigng out with your friends. I can't ask for much more than that.

[/ QUOTE ]

"everyone buys a couple 24's"????

so you have what, at least 48 beers each? wtf are you drinking, swedish beer?

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I used to get super frustrated with golf. Get 3 friends, everyone buys a couple 24's and go to a par 3 course. Play 9 holes, goof around, drink some beer. It is a lot of fun on a nice day. You're outside, drinking, hanigng out with your friends. I can't ask for much more than that.

[/ QUOTE ]

"everyone buys a couple 24's"????

so you have what, at least 48 beers each? wtf are you drinking, swedish beer?

[/ QUOTE ]24 oz beers, you momo.


Buster, we can go golfing anytime you want at some cheap ass par three. I suggest, Portland Meadows.

[MicroBob]

yahoo chess might be worthwhile.

or the chessmaster program on CD.

You could start to figure out how the pieces move just from playing on the computer.

On the internet chess-club you could just play one of the beginning level computer-bots while you get your feet wet learning how the pieces move. Obviously it won't let you make and illegal move so that might have promise.
But ICC actually costs a little money to join.


If you buy a cheapo chess-set it will likely come with an instruction guide explaining how the pieces move (including goofy things such as pawns capturing diagonally and castling...and what the hell is meant my check-mate).

They also have chess-sets that have little directions for how the pieces move written at the base. Very obviously for kids and newbies.


It's not that hard to figure out once you get it.
My Dad taught me to play when I was 5 yrs old for crying out loud. I wasn't any good...but I could remember how the pieces moved.


As for golf....I tried and tried...and it just annoys the crap out of me and embarasses me. Never broke 100...I'm just THAT freaking bad.

My Dad has a reasonable handicap...but my abilities to hit the ball are severely limited. Maybe it's a depth-perception thing or something but when I swing I'm about as likely to miss the ball completely as anything else. Same as when I was a kid and trying to do it.

Yes, I keep my head down. Yes, I've had lessons and been told all the different things to do.

I just can't freaking do it at all and it was always embarassing to be THAT bad.

golf sucks. poker is cooler these days anyway.

games i'm not so terrible at where drinking is acceptable/encouraged include bowling, pool, darts (and poker). But those certainly don't have the 'white collar networking' possibilities that golf has.

[lorinda]

You could start to figure out how the pieces move just from playing on the computer.

Also, in general, they are shaped in a way that hints at how they move.

Lori

[DougOzzzz]

I've spent a crap load of time trying to master both. Both chess and golf can take quite a bit of effort just to get to respectable levels (maybe 90's in golf, 15-1600 in chess).

Golf is particularly frustrating, because your game can just come and go like that. I played golf for 10 years. My 4th year, when I was 14 years old, I was frickin good. Every shot went where I wanted it to. My short game sucked, but if not for that I was about a scratch golfer. For some reason, after that summer, I never got it back. I took a ton of lessons, paid for the best equipment - but I NEVER got the confidence that I had when I was 14. To say the least, it was extremely frustrating. My advice for you if you decide to play golf, and don't want to embarrass yourself, is to TAKE LESSONS. And I don't mean after you practice a while. Take them RIGHT AWAY. Because if you teach yourself a crappy swing, it is damn hard to fix it.

As for chess, start with a beginner's book or two. Bruce Pandolfini has a few good ones as I recall. Get a book of chess puzzles - the more the better, and try to work through them. Play a bunch of "lightning" chess. Some people will say this destroys their game, and for advanced players they are probably right. But it's a good way to learn tactics. And unless you want to spend hours upon hours analyzing opening lines - learn a couple SOLID opening systems and stick to them. I used to play a form of the Reti and the English opening as white, which generally kept me from getting beat in the first 10 moves. I had more trouble trying to find a system with black that would let me stay in the game without memorizing hundreds of lines. Definitely steer clear of openings such as the Sicilian Dragon and King's Indian Defense.

The advice given here isn't designed to make you a great player at either golf or chess - just a competitive one without spending too much time.

[BusterStacks]

alright well which do i learn first? i'm thinking i could golf now since the good weather is coming and learn chess in the winter.

[DougOzzzz]

Sounds fine... I'd prefer to start learning golf in March or something though. Otherwise, by the time you start to get good, the golf season will be over.

[AviD]

Yahoo is a good beginner site, but the competition is pretty mild.

Grandmaster chess is actually a good start. That is how I initially learned. I kept playing the computer and learned its counter moves to my moves and would start over and prevent that counter, then see their next counter, start over and prevent that counter, etc, etc until eventually I learned the common computer relative moves and openings in chess.

Then I got involved in ICC (as you mentioned) and played quite a bit, both vs computers and vs humans. Pretty solid competition on there but speed chess seemed to be the main thing when I played (more speed chess games than longer games).

I would avoid speed chess and take your time. Chess is an insanely deep thinking game but like most things as you learn the game and get better at it you will begin to think and process moves faster. (similar to video games when you start off all noob suck calling everyone an aimbot because you can't hit a wall nevermind another player, then you learn the moves, the weapons, etc and start owning).

Peachy bots in UT, I have demos. <for anyone that might actually get that>

[augie00]

Golf is very worthwhile to learn. It's one of the few sports you can play until you're an old man.

Without a doubt if you want to become a competant golfer you must take lessons. Some people can teach themselves, but you will save yourself a lot of frustration if you simply pay someone else to show you what to do.

You can hire a good professional for around $100/hr, and it is well worth it (it may seem a little steep, but considering the price of golf it is not bad).

When it comes to golf clubs, it is always better to have clubs custom built for you, even if you have to pay a litte extra. You don't need to buy name-brand clubs, you just need to have them fit to your specific person (posture, height, etc).

[SCfuji]

id rather get girls than get out of speeding tickets.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
Yahoo is a good beginner site, but the competition is pretty mild.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yahoo chess is not what I'd recommend for reasons above and beyond the competition. It's incredibly annoying that while playing at Yahoo people can just disconnect and leave in the middle of the game with such regularity. It's also a much more annoying community.

I'd recommend FICS, the Free Internet Chess Server. At the high end there aren't enough players, but unless you're quite good there's plenty of competition. It's free and has lots of nifty features. It's a good place.

[MaxPower]

The worst thing you can do in golf is TRY to get good. You will start thinking of a million different swing thoughts and theories and you will be unable to hit the ball.

Just rely on your natural athletic ability and use the club to send the ball to the target.

Don't buy your clubs off the rack. Go to a qualified club fitter or clubmaker. Other than the knockoff clones, most of the name brands and golf club components are good clubs. You just want to make sure that clubs you get are right for you in terms or weight, lie angle, length, etc.

[groo]

You don't play golf, you catch golf.....like the illness it is.

[Punker]

A 2200 player will be one of the favorites in most local tourneys, and fodder for the big boys in major tourneys. At that level, each 100 points is a very big deal. Many players treasure any win over a 2200 player (a master scalp)

[SomethingClever]

Golf can be fun, but the problem is it costs an arm and a leg.

I took a golf class in college where we got unlimited use of a little 9-hole par 3 course near the school. Free golf = fun. $80 golf = teh gay.

[Blackjack]

If you play over 2/4 Limit... paying for Golf shouldn't be a damn problem. At all.

Anyways, I've been playing golf for 7 years.. since I was 12.

I could always hit the ball though and get it in the air. That's definitely THE hardest part for a beginning golfer. Hitting consistent shots that get air everytime. Just think contact contact contact.

After that - you have to work on direction. IMO the short game is the easiest for a newbie to improve faster and it's also the most important part of Golf by the time you learn to hit the ball consistently.

The drive is not important. A 290 yard drive is nice but I used to shoot fine without it. Now it's just an added bonus.

The second shot IS the shot that defines your game.

Blackjack

[Jeff W]

Golf: Your dad is a good golfer. Why not ask him? Maybe he has clubs that you can borrow to start out with.

Chess: Stay away from opening game memorization. Check out some books from your library and play 5 minute blitz games on ICC to get the hang of it.

[MicroBob]

i have not beaten any 2200's in 'regular' chess...have a few in 1-0 or 3-0 chess on ICC but those don't really count.


played one live tourney and had a 2500 in the first round and I was winning after about 15-20 moves with a pretty wild opening.

I was donking around with the Wilkes-Barre defense (lotsa fun...sacrifices and weird positions all over the place). my rating was only 1200 or so at the time.

Anyway, I naturally couldn't hold it.
in post-mortem he showed me how I could have pretty much sealed the win.


Now THAT would have been a pretty damn impressive scalp.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I call them horse, castle, etc. Is there a book for total noobs? Also what kind of time frame am I looking at before I can play someone and not make a noob ass mistake? How long until I might win?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yasser Seirawan has a series of books. Start with "play winning chess" (very basic noob material), then move to tactics (more advanced and neat tricks), strategy (very important overall strategy), endgame, openings(tons of content to memorize) and then brilliances.

Amazon Linky (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Seirawan%2C%20Yasser/002-5329215-5932857)
'
The books are very good and easy to read. After you finish these talk to Dynasty as he is an excellent chess player and he should be able to guide you well for more advanced material/website. Oh ya, if you live in a big city join a chess club and to play against some really good players. It's quick to learn and takes a lifetime to master. Good luck!

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

play night golf w/ us. Night + golf X wine / free = FUN!

[zephed56]

I'm in the same position as you in chess.

I thought this was worth a look.
Go over the games (http://www.50chessgames.freeserve.co.uk/indexsmall.html)

[brassnuts]

[ QUOTE ]
[golf is] only moderately entertaining to play. However, I have never played an actual round.

[/ QUOTE ]

How would you know, then?


[ QUOTE ]
How can I make this something I will enjoy more?

[/ QUOTE ]

First... try playing. Then add beer.

[blaze666]

this is a pretty decent chess guide.
http://www.princeton.edu/~jedwards/cif/intro.html
chess sound a lot of fun, because there is no limit to how well one can play. i think the top players all have waaaay further to go until they are invincible uberthinkers. and golf sounds boring as hell. it's just guys walking around.

[Joe826]

i haven't read the other posts so forgive me if someone mentioned this, but the idiot's guide to chess is absolutely the best intro book i've ever seen. well worth your money and it doesn't take alot of work if you just want to become a pretty good favorite over some average/random friend.

[eric5148]

In this thread: Cnfuzzd gets beginning golf advice. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2195424&page=&view=&sb=5& o=&fpart=all&vc=1)

[klagett]

I'd definetly recommend you getting the chessmaster program..

I think i'ts on chessmaster 9000 right now. It has great lectures and anything you really need to become a solid player.

[lordfoo]

To get started in chess, do the following:

1) Learn an opening as white. A good one for beginners is the Colle system.

2) Learn two openings for black, one against e4, and one against d4. Since most of your opponents will play either 1.d4 or 1.e4, this should cover you. Any of Andrew Soltis' books on basic openings should be OK.

3) Read any book by Aaron Nimzowich (My System and Chess Praxis). These will give you an overview of positional play.

4) Read any book by Ludek Pachman (Modern Chess Strategy and Attack and Defence in Modern Chess Tactics). These two books will give you an overview of tactical play.

5) Pick up any tactical "quiz" books. Tactics are what will carry you through the class levels (up to 2000).

6) Read endgame books.

7) Pick up some middlegame books.

8) Learn more advanced openings, such as the (accelerated dragon) sicilian, (white and black side of) ruy lopez, english opening, leningrad dutch...

9) Find an analysis buddy. Pick an opening or tactical idea. Setup a board and pieces in one particular position, then take turns playing 5-minute games with each side, starting from that position.

10) ... ?

11) Profit!

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]

10) Go back in time, and get your younger self to start this process at about age 5 or so. Add in Grandmaster trainers, home schooling, and 5-10 hours of chess study per day.

11) Profit!

[/ QUOTE ]

[MicroBob]

well...yes these are reasonable suggestions for someone who knows how to play.

i like the Soltis a books a lot btw.


but buster doesn't even know how the pieces move.

Trying to figure out the Colle System before he even knows what 'castling' means probably won't do it for him.


However...if after learning the very basics of the game (and playing a few games) and getting to the point where it comes naturally that pawns can only move forward and can only capture diaganolly and THEN you decide you want to take the game a bit more seriously and want to get better....at THAT point go ahead and get Soltis book on the Colle or London System or something.


but we've got to cover the beginners' territroy first before pushing him into stuff that he obviously isn't ready for.

[ghostface]

[ QUOTE ]
The short game IS the area that defines your game.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP