Schizophrenia and Poker

[Kurtis]

I wonder how Schizophrenia, or really any major mental illness, affects a poker player?

[mackthefork]

They always think you are bluffing, and insist the dealer is wrapped in tinfoil if they are in the 10 seat. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Mack

<font color="white"> Sorry for my flippant response </font>

[PairTheBoard]

Successful poker requires a great deal of mental and emotional stability. It's not a game for schizophrenics or those subject to mania, depression, or other psychotic disorders. It's a cruel thought to even consider.

PairTheBoard

[Kurtis]

No, I am asking for personal reasons. I am not talking when you are in pyschotic state, but when the synotoms die down. I forget the term, sorta like a relapse, but it never goes away.

It has seemed to help me, well maybe not help, but quiets the mind and I am able to focus.

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
Successful poker requires a great deal of mental and emotional stability. It's not a game for schizophrenics or those subject to mania, depression, or other psychotic disorders. It's a cruel thought to even consider.

PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Pairtheboard

I think this applys even on a very minor basis, for example, when I feel like I won't win, I invariably lose, confidence as well as mental stability is very important, depression affects confidence in a serious way.

Mack

[PairTheBoard]

Kurtis,

I have a dear friend who suffers some form of bi-polar schizophrenia. She takes Respiridol. Yes she can get stable under the medication. But when she gets emotionally disturbed or begins obsessing about something she can quickly destabalize and end up in the hospital. If you can keep your poker playing very very recreational and it helps you maybe it's a good thing. But poker, and gambling in general can be very emotionaly disturbing and easily obsessed over. I'd sure advise against it myself.

PairTheBoard

[bkholdem]

When your stable (if you are high functioning) just show up at the casino with a nice fat roll, dressed and acting like you do when you are decompensated. Sit at the no limit table and go to town.

[kiddj]

[ QUOTE ]
When your stable (if you are high functioning) just show up at the casino with a nice fat roll, dressed and acting like you do when you are decompensated. Sit at the no limit table and go to town.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is actually quite clever. Nothing makes you more money than being underestimated. (Actually, nothing makes you more money than being skilled and underestimated.)

[stigmata]

Other issues aside, one of the core symptoms of schizophrenia is "thought disorder". It is generally observed that schizophrenics have lower IQ than the general population, even though they may have scored highly before the onset of symptoms. The generally disorganised mental capacaties of a schizophrenic patient would not usually lend itself well to an intellectual activity such as Poker, but might be an asset in e.g. the arts. However, schizophrenia is an extremely heterogenous disease, and it is therefore not out of the question that there are diagnosed schizophrenics playing poker at a high level.


Although I have to say this is rather silly question. I should imagine that quite a few world-class poker players have suffered from depression at some point, it is a very common situation....

[PokerProdigy]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how Schizophrenia, or really any major mental illness, affects a poker player?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just for the record, most people think Schizophrenia means having multiple personalities, but actually this is NOT true (even though most movies, books, etc... don't know this so they keep making it seem like that, and then people are even more mis-informed). Multiple-personality disorder is when you have multiple personalities, Schizophrenia on the other hand is defined as "a group of severe disorders charachterized by disorganizedd and delusional thinking, disturbed perceptions, and inappropriate emotions and actions." The reason I made this post is because it seems that well over 50% of the population does not know this (including me until I took psych 100).

P.S. If anyone still doesn't believe me then just send Dr. Alan a private message.

[poker-penguin]

I would put the over under for the % of poker players who suffered depression (depending on how we define it) at 20.

Yep, apparantly 1 in 5 people can be clinicly diagnosed (DSM IV) as having depression at some point in their life. At present I see no reason to assume poker players are any more or less prone to it.

I'd love to say it makes me good at poker, but it doesn't. Similarly, it doesn't really make me bad at poker.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

One should never play poker when impaired. Schizophrenics are chronically impaired.

More on point for 2+2ers, folks with depression will need to carefully self-monitor as they will be prone to bad decisions at the table while depressed.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how Schizophrenia, or really any major mental illness, affects a poker player?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just for the record, most people think Schizophrenia means having multiple personalities, but actually this is NOT true (even though most movies, books, etc... don't know this so they keep making it seem like that, and then people are even more mis-informed). Multiple-personality disorder is when you have multiple personalities, Schizophrenia on the other hand is defined as "a group of severe disorders charachterized by disorganizedd and delusional thinking, disturbed perceptions, and inappropriate emotions and actions." The reason I made this post is because it seems that well over 50% of the population does not know this (including me until I took psych 100).

P.S. If anyone still doesn't believe me then just send Dr. Alan a private message.

[/ QUOTE ]


Can you give an example of Schizophrehnic behavior? Would it be something like thinking the CIA is following you when you're driving?

[tek]

I think the guy portayed in the movie "A Beautiful Mind" had it.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the guy portayed in the movie "A Beautiful Mind" had it.

[/ QUOTE ]


Hmmmmm. I saw that film. I bet that guy could play winning poker. Don't you?

[mackthefork]

Wrapping things in tinfoil, thinking people are coming for you through the water pipes. Dad, dad, no please dad, don't turn the taps on, they're in there, listen carefully you can hear them tapping, now come help me wrap these baked bean can in cling film.

Mack

[wdcbooks]

My twin brother is schizophrenic and I cannot imagine him as a winning poker player. We played growing up and he graduated with high honors from one of the best schools in the country. It was clear though that by his senior year something was wrong, and he steadily deteriorated for about six years before stabilizing.

Schizophrenics have trouble distinguishing between reality and fantasy and their thought processes become disorded. So, for example, when my bro heard sirens he though the firemen were going to break into his house and give him AIDS (yes I know it's funny and its OK to laugh). He 'hears' things on the radio when there is no radio on. He believes that certain rituals have wide reaching consequences. For instance clipping his toenails improves his eyesight.

These symptoms can be lessend with medication. The medications have serious side effects though and would prevent him from engaging in such an intellectually stimulating activity like poker. He sleeps far more than most people. His thoughts are sluggish and his concentration is poor.

So what it comes down to is an unmedicated paraniod schizophrenic's delusions and disorded thought would prevent him from being an effective player, although I suppose he would be an unpredictable player. If he is medicated he could understand the game, but would lack the concentration and mental acuity to play well.

[A_C_Slater]

Fascinating.

How long does he sleep a day?

[neorab]

I have mild schizophrenia, it's kept down with zyprexa, but I'm going to start on respirdal next month, the zyprexa gives me the munchies. My IQ has dropped 20 points in the last two years (when the symptoms started to mess with my life) but it's still pretty high. I think that it doesn't really affect one's intelligence, just there ability to focus it on reality.

I've quit my medication a couple of times over the past two years. I'd miss a couple doses, start getting paranoid, and think they were poison. Playing poker in this state is near impossible. I can't convince myself that the players around me can't hear my thoughts or broadcast messages into my head. I'll often forget where the action is and try and raise when I've already folded. The list is a mile long of stupid things I've done when I'm "out of it."

On the medication, I play nearly as well as I did before the first major breakdown. I can't think quite as fast, so it's hard to play alot of tables at once, but it hasn't really affected my B&amp;M play for the most part. I can tell when I'm having symptoms start up, so I stand up. One plus of the medication is that my facial features stay flat, I have alot of trouble showing emotion, on or off the meds. I basicly look half asleep, half stoned all of the time.

Basicly, it's harder to play poker since the onset of the more serious symptoms. It's not impossible for me, but my symptoms are far less serious than most schizophrenics.

[bkholdem]

I know one guy who actually cut off his testicles with a pair of sissors because they were sending him "bad messages". This is an extreme, but true, example.

More common are people you see in public that are not clean and talking to themselves rather loudly- they are unmedicated (as opposed to the way normal people occasionally talk to themselves quietly as a means of processing things).

[wdcbooks]

My brother's schizophrenia is rather severe, although the medication is the same as someone with a less severe disease might take. He sleeps from about 10pm until about noon each day, with intermittent periods of insomnia.

The more I think about it, the more I think he would be awful at poker, especially live. His affect is very odd. This means that he seems emotionally flat and responds oddly to various situations. His facial expressions don't always match what he is feeling, and he is poor at understanding the emotional state of others. Reading people would be very difficult for him.

He knows I play and shows no interest in the game. His IQ previous to the disease was about 140, I would guess it would measure at about 105 now. I am sure he is very aware of that and doesn't want to fail at an intellectual challenge.

[tek]

Perhaps another topic might be Asberger Disorder &amp; playing poker...

Many people might choose internet poker because there are no real people to read. I chose the arduous task of playing B &amp; M. After years of effort and amelioration of Asberger due to advancing years in general, I am able to read players adequately. Anti-depressant treatment a few years ago helped also.

[Kurtis]

Yeah, live poker is not really an option for me, all the noise and commotion and people would be too much. I can handle lo-key tournaments, but the typical casino enviroment would be too much stimulation. And I don't play high stakes. I look at it like a game of chess, but with with money.

[dogmeat]

My schizophrenia does not affect my poker playing (YES IT DOES). I always raise when I want to (FOLD, FOLD)and never worry about the outcome (IF I DON'T CALL, THEY WILL GET ME). However, I think the real question (NO MORE QUESTIONS OR I WILL DIE) is: Why isn't online poker rigged? (IT'S RIGGED, RIGGED, RIGGED).

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif :
I /images/graemlins/club.gif MY DOG

[peachy]

the same way any of these diseases would affect anything in life