Sorry to post an AA hand... [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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HollywoodDB

05-20-2005, 12:11 AM

Only been here for about 20 hands or so, no reads.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO raises, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO caps, BB calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, CO 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (16.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, BB raises, Hero...?

BB check raises the flop and turn, he must have me crushed...right? Raise, call or fold?

istewart

05-20-2005, 12:13 AM

Ugh...

The pot is huge but I would fold the flop. I think you're behind here too much and it will cost you many bets to get to a SD.

Also, wtf with the LRR without reads?

Redd

05-20-2005, 12:15 AM

Straightforward fold IMO. BB might be the type that gets excited when everyone bets, but he's more likely pushing a good hand with his check-cap. You're usually at least second best here, and you'll be paying alot to prove it.

Firefly

05-20-2005, 12:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Only been here for about 20 hands or so, no reads.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A.
Hero Calls

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF?!?

gvibes

05-20-2005, 12:17 AM

BB has an 8 here just about 100% of the tieme. Unless you have a donkish read on him, fold the flop.

I also hate the LRR - it lets crap in.

milesdyson

05-20-2005, 12:17 AM

Sick check cap by BB.

I honestly think with implied odds that making the flop call is the right move. You are getting like 10:1, and I think you're easily making up 15-20+ sb if you hit an ace on the turn. But you missed, so fold.

edit: bleh on your readless limp reraise, and I stick by calling this flop, despite popular (wrong) opinion.

imported_AAcheckraise

05-20-2005, 12:18 AM

"istewart":

I agree with your resoning, but only because the chance of QQ 88 8x making your 1:11 draw to a full from 2 pair not clean, not to mention you don't have the odds to call, pot to you is 1:9 not 1:11 not to mention that you need to guess that you may just be drawinging to a 2 outer (1:23)

so unless 2/3 of theese players bet on nothing, I WOULD NEVER CALL here, but thats just my 2 cents...

HollywoodDB

05-20-2005, 12:19 AM

lol, I know, I was feeling sassy. It's terrible.

Marquis

05-20-2005, 12:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"istewart":

I agree with your resoning, but only because the chance of QQ 88 8x making your 1:11 draw to a full from 2 pair not clean, not to mention you don't have the odds to call, pot to you is 1:9 not 1:11 not to mention that you need to guess that you may just be drawinging to a 2 outer (1:23)

so unless 2/3 of theese players bet on nothing, I WOULD NEVER CALL here, but thats just my 2 cents...

[/ QUOTE ]

88 is the only thing we're worried about if we improve.

HollywoodDB

05-20-2005, 12:22 AM

I know, as I explained to istewart, it's terrible.

istewart

05-20-2005, 12:26 AM

This is a good point.

Firefly

05-20-2005, 12:27 AM

aslong as you know it's terrible /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

HollywoodDB

05-20-2005, 12:29 AM

I'm burning my flesh as I type.

imported_AAcheckraise

05-20-2005, 12:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"istewart":

I agree with your resoning, but only because the chance of QQ 88 8x making your 1:11 draw to a full from 2 pair not clean, not to mention you don't have the odds to call, pot to you is 1:9 not 1:11 not to mention that you need to guess that you may just be drawinging to a 2 outer (1:23)

so unless 2/3 of theese players bet on nothing, I WOULD NEVER CALL here, but thats just my 2 cents...

[/ QUOTE ]

88 is the only thing we're worried about if we improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm QQ = drawing to 2 outs when we would usually include the other two 8s as outs.....

but it is true, that 88 is the only drawing dead hand *well runner runner* /images/graemlins/wink.gif

scotty34

05-20-2005, 01:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I also hate the LRR - it lets crap in.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not why you should hate it.

Redd

05-20-2005, 01:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Sick check cap by BB.

I honestly think with implied odds that making the flop call is the right move. You are getting like 10:1, and I think you're easily making up 15-20+ sb if you hit an ace on the turn. But you missed, so fold.

edit: bleh on your readless limp reraise, and I stick by calling this flop, despite popular (wrong) opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you, miles. You're likely ahead of CO, and MP2 hasn't really shown that much strength at this point. Between the implied odds and the chance that BB is capping it 'because it'll be capped anyways', I'd probably consider reevaluating on the turn.

Note that while me agreeing with an opinion does make it more popular, it does not make it any less wrong. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

istewart

05-20-2005, 01:37 AM

Eh, I now agree with miles, factoring in 12ish SBs (6BBs) you need to make up. But I'd say you're ahead on the flop close to never.

Shillx

05-20-2005, 01:39 AM

I like the idea of going for a limp reraise from time to time (or even in your standard strategy) but not at a table that you don't have any reads on. Raise it up preflop dude.

Brad

gvibes

05-20-2005, 02:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I also hate the LRR - it lets crap in.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not why you should hate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Should I hate it because, at a passive table, there is too high a chance that we won't get an opportunity to 3-bet, and we would therefore miss out on an assload of value preflop?

SoftcoreRevolt

05-20-2005, 02:22 AM

You are history's greatest monster.

I probably fold this turn, and cry.

scotty34

05-20-2005, 03:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I also hate the LRR - it lets crap in.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not why you should hate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Should I hate it because, at a passive table, there is too high a chance that we won't get an opportunity to 3-bet, and we would therefore miss out on an assload of value preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. I would love people to play crap against my AA. Hell actually, I would love people to play anything against my AA.

PokerBob

05-20-2005, 10:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Only been here for about 20 hands or so, no reads.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO raises, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO caps, BB calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, CO 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (16.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, BB raises, Hero...?

BB check raises the flop and turn, he must have me crushed...right? Raise, call or fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

BB's check/cap on the flop doesn't look good. I think you can fold the flop. His c/r on the turn makes folding easier IMO. I dump it and say [censored].

SCfuji

05-20-2005, 11:14 AM

im either folding on the flop or showing down. and i dont fancy folding on the flop much.

Fantam

05-20-2005, 12:08 PM

Both MP2 and BB have woken up on the flop with raises and reraises, and this has been followed by a bet and reraise on the turn.

You are getting ~ 10 to 1 to call and are probably IMHO behind to at least a set of 8's. The chance of your catching another A to fill up is about 23 to 1.

So in this instance, despite the big pot I would fold. I dont think that you will have the best hand often enough to make continuing worthwhile.

PokerBob

05-20-2005, 12:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
im either folding on the flop or showing down. and i dont fancy folding on the flop much.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, what are you giving BB credit for when he check/caps the flop into 3 other players? /images/graemlins/confused.gif